Today we’ve got another serial entrepreneur on the podcast and we’re talking sexism, scrap metal & success. Linda McCabe is business leader, author, speaker and coach. She’s the founder of Optimal Level LLC and the host of the Lightning Strikes podcast. In this episode of All Up In My Lady Business, Linda tells us about–
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Music. Welcome to all up in my lady business I am your host Mary nisi on this podcast all explore the fine line between having it together I'm losing your shit here I share my journey as an entrepreneur a mom a wife a DJ and randomly a beekeeper. I have no shame and no filter except the ones I use on Instagram. My stories of resilience a little structure and a lot of resource Wellness could show you how to take those same things and live your life with your hole. Music. All right everybody thanks so much for tuning in today I am so excited because I have got an incredible incredible woman on the podcast today I have Linda McCabe who is the host of the inspiring and Powerful podcast lightning strikes practical wisdom for everyday success Linda took over as president and owner of a struggling small company and grew it to millions in sales she was a Creator and president of optimal level LLC and to add to her long list of achievements Linda is also an accomplished business coach and author Linda thank you so much for coming over and being on all up in my lady bits it's so exciting to be here with you because I think you're terrific. Thank you I see I see you got the check well thank you so much for coming on so you do have quite the amazing resume and I would love to know how you got, your start in taking over the small struggling company and beefed it up to millions in sales be very happy to tell you, I was thinking about leaving teaching, and my mom came up to me and said you know one day you'd be great in sales and I said I don't know why you say that she said you should go into business, with Dad and do the sales and I said I don't know I'll take about it and I talk to him, my father and he said what the hell do you know about this crap is this. But later on he changed his mind he was okay with it and I went into business with him because I agree to do not only sales but, everything else that you can think of and then office so I was kind of like an office Helper and in sales, and I decided that I know nothing about sales nothing zero I had been a teacher. So I so what are you teaching I was teaching 7th and 8th grade. Oh my God you actually know a lot about sales if you're teaching other than creators yeah well you just sell them on wanting to be in see you know something you've got a point this true so anyway so you so what did you teach to something 8th graders I taught you know math and science and English and you know oh you were General teacher right I see and let's remind what was your what was the scrap business that your father owned and how long had he owned it it was H diamond iron and metal company and it was owned by my grandfather my mother's father and then he took the plot thickens you your dad your husband took over for your mom's dad's business my father took over from his wife's father. And then eventually me so anyway in order to no sales, I didn't know if I could learn it but I went to the library that's summer because I got off a teaching and I have the summer and I read every single book, and sales that was in the library and that got me started. Now you would ask something else what did you want to know about it what is the scrap metal business is that what you, yeah like how did so you're going to your grandfather started the scrap metal business and then your dad took over right so what what what what does the scrap metal business do okay so what we do there's different kinds but what we did is we picked up scrap metal from manufacturers primarily manufacturers who have to get the spread, off the floor they can't containers and if they don't get it off they have to close down the whole operation so we provide containers and we come regularly and exchange them take the full and bring, empties and then we sold our scrap metal to other processors, and other people that could turn it into a sheet metal or whatever kind of crap it was going to be. So what's an example of the kind of companies that you would be picking up scrap from oh well they were primarily I did not go after I slitters. And Sheet Metal people that sheet metal him they weren't good, manufacturers of I don't know different things I don't remember was like like like like metal drums or like no they make they make everything everything you can think of they made every day they make deaths they may whatever it is out of metal. So you're picking up the stuff that's left the stuff that's left behind from the things that they're actually exactly it's like making a dress you cut out around it or wear a piece of material and whatever is left over is scrap. So you come into the office and you're going to be learning how to do sales you're gonna be doing admin and you are learning everything you can to learn how to sell. The scrap metal accurately and do you feel like the education you got from the books taught you what you needed to know to be a good salesperson yes but I it's backwards I was selling our service. Not the scrap metal because we had my dad had people that already it relationship so they were already picking it up so my job was to get more customers. That's what I meant by sales okay so you're trying to get the first the beginning user the people you get the I'm trying to get the manufacturers and the people that make this graph. So when did you become the sale when did you when did you transition out of being admin to being a salesperson well I worked off my dance floor in his condo and when I could get the phone. I started calling people and I have no idea what I was doing but I just called them and asked who they do they have a scrap metal person everyone did, so that was no good and then I said I'd like to come out and talk to you and eventually it just started working and then I used a lot of the things I learned from sales. Do you remember your first client that you got. Boy I cannot I have a story I can tell you though I would love to hear it about I have two stories. Both of them were my largest clients or customers at the time. Okay I'll tell you first this one in order to pick up the huge amount of scrap and have the containers I needed I could not do it so, I contracted with someone else who is going to do it for me. So there was an added cost because I had to pay this person this company also went after it was whirlpool. It was whirlpool and the company that I contracted it also went after it. So when I got it I was shocked out of my mind and I said can you tell me please, why me and she said everyone else that came in here, I said how big they were how gorgeous they were how strong they were and that they could do anything I wanted and you came in and you said can you tell me about your company, can you tell me how long you been working here let me know what you do how does this I'm always so fascinated. By everybody in the business I just was fascinated so she said. You cared about me you wanted to know about me they were just saying we're terrific so that's how your you were making them the hero of the story. You know like and that and to be honest with you that is the that is the key to sales right there is making. Is making the other person be the most important thing you're there to make them look better and not the other way around exactly so that was one story whirlpool. Another one was a really big company I don't remember the name of it but when they call me I've been calling on them for seven years. And when they called me and said come on in we want to talk to you I made this gorgeous beautiful, presentation you know this gorgeous thing and I have to present about five or six people including the president, and so I gave everybody their book and I started saying and now this and now then and they're going to Turning pages and I looked at. The president of the company. And he had his elbow on the desk and his hand on his face and he was just leaning there bored to tears. So I looked and I said okay to myself all right and then shortly after that his elbow. Slipped off the whole desk and he was like asleep and then woke up. Well I just reacted I did not think I just reacted and I said okay what are you want just like that. And he said I'll tell you and he told me I want this I want that I want this and I said I can do this I can do that I can do this so the moral of the story is he's not interested and beautiful pictures and how good I present he wants to know what can you do for me, there's a very very valuable sales lesson then you're focusing on them and if you just listen. Then when you get a chance you just say yep I can do it all that's really basically what it was yeah of course yeah I got the business. One of my one of my sales mentors Ellenberg he's this wedding industry Guru and he has a book called shut up and sell more and it's true like just you can't talk the whole time or else. It's people want to be filled seen and heard and they'll tell you what they need if you just ask the right questions exactly exactly and they want to know you give a damn about them is it true yeah now I'm just getting the business you know it's not about going in and saying I'm getting the business it's. I care about you and I want to find what I can do best for you. So that's and yeah and I feel like a lot of that is missing right now with all of the the internet application of sales and the things we buy it's like the human has been removed from so many of these products and services it's a. It makes it hard to even like really care or relate it so easy to just doesn't create brand loyalty it doesn't, you know you never have a person you can call when the thing breaks and I and I can't tell if I sound like back in my day you're saying it but it's true you know relationships are dying you know when you just text somebody and how do you know really what's going on when you're texting there's only so much you can communicate that way and I think it's very true what you're saying about products, when you have a you have a you have a triple product like you actually have to interface with people you don't get that you don't get to hide behind the internet and a job like scrap metal where you have to like develop any to go pick up the things there's so many pieces where there is a human interaction and so you have to actually also deal with like making sure the person who picks them up is like looks right and treat the people whose for you. Exactly it's not just you who's interfacing these people it's people who are also representing you which I think probably others, my truck drivers go to these factories and they interact with the people. Bring the scrap and give them their paperwork and they have to like them so they have to be any certain way. Yeah so when you so how long did you were you in sales before you took over the company completely. That was six years Now my dad passed away oh that's a that's a tiring so when your father died was that was it sudden. No we knew that he had cancer for a long time so we knew it was coming. So are you prepared to take over like head he groomed you and gotten you ready for it or was it a finger. He wasn't that kind of guy it was hard to learn from him you know do this do that it was hard to learn from him and he was not a salesperson and all he was the smartest nicest guy around, but he was not a salesperson so. When that happened I started doing everything in my husband who worked with me started doing everything and we got into this huge fight lots of fights, and it was horrible because we were fighting in front of employees and it just was. And I said to him going home I said this does not work so we went to a psychologist. And a therapist what you and your dad are you and your husband my husband okay because after my dad passed away. He and I were fighting he took care of all the scrap stuff and that and back and I took care of everything up front, and so we just started fighting so we went to a therapist and one of the first assignment that the therapist gave us. It said put down everything on a piece of paper that you do and put down and Michael you put down everything that you do. So my stay out there and thought a three things and so I can't think of anything else and I wrote about. I make five yeah around 35 40 things and so the therapist said okay, you're the president and then and then we went from there yeah your husband worked with you / for you in this Vandiver yes. And he you were his boss or were you did you ever think of it that way or is that we didn't think of it that way hmm no I would never. Boss him so he just took care of the operations and I took up everything in front but I did. I did have the authority over everybody in the back as well okay so you take over the business in your husband and you work together like the whole time. Yes he stay a while that's impressive that's impressive to run a business with your husband that it has so much but there's so much of it is tied to you you know it's like your grandfather your dad and then your husband comes in and you know that must be an impermissible. He worked for them before I did but he was a kind of guy that wanted to be a truck driver, and love the scrap and he was never somebody to be a leader that's just not his personality you know what I like that I absolutely I mean I made the realization not too long ago that I'm not a team player, and that's okay like sometimes you're just the leader and sometimes it's just better if you're the one that's in charge of everything and whether you're a woman or a man that's like like I just that's just what I'm good at and I'm glad that you guys figure that out and that you were able to go to a school psychologist that was able to that your that your husband could hear that because I mean what year was this when that happened. Oh my goodness 1987 something like that wow this is like not exactly a hugely Progressive time like like Snot it was not there were. Two. Or three women that out of like 300 scrap metal companies for hundreds of Chicago land area in the Chicagoland area right so once you took over what was the reaction to you taking over for your dad and like being the face of the company essentially well everybody wanted to be employed they wanted to keep their jobs, so that was okay with them you know and it just I just rolled right into it because I had been there all those years so I rode right into it. And how did the. How did the industry take it like when you would go to the scrap places where they like well could they accept you with open arms or was there. The answer is yes and I want to tell you two things about that. I started by taking over my dad's responsibilities that he used to do that I didn't do and one of them I made I stop this. Very soon afterwards but I was still doing it and I went some place to pick up a check. In this case you know scrap people that bought from us and I saw this man standing. There and I thought I recognized him and he came up to me. And he stood this far from my face right into my face and he took his finger like he's stabbing you in the chest he ditch stabbed me in the chest. And he said you take any more of my clients and we were by the Chicago River and he said with a brick. Down there and pointed the Chicago River. This is your competition this is my competition so I looked at him, and I said are you so and so and he said yes I said oh my god I've been dying to meet you, I said you're a legend in the industry I'd love to sit down and get any information you can share with me I just want to talk to you and get to know you, and we sat down and we had coffee and it was fine after it is amazing that you just disarmed a man who was threatening your life yes with flat and what flattery and it absolutely worked it did it worked it worked so you know they got they got used to me I think. Yes there were there were times when being a woman was a disadvantage one of my customers said this competitor was there and he came came in and he said she gets her business by sleeping. With these people and. I mean that's so ridiculous I you know didn't even pay any attention to it and sometimes people are a little rude to women. Any dois you'd walk into the factories I walked in all the time because I walked into the back that's where the scrap metal situation was and there's always nude. Women you know I'm on posters and pictures that's it was standard fare you know and you just don't pay attention you know so I wanted to tell you that. It was important for me to succeed in the industry that to have the attitude. If a man was going to be rude to me or talk down to me or anything like that I felt that the time I know it's different now but this is how I felt and it worked. I didn't take offense I considered who was saying it and that what they were used to. And I just let it go I just let it go and so I was paying attention on. Work in the business doing the sales and also relationships with men. That worked and it like you said I disarm people and they didn't say it anymore so that's how I was at the time, with the jerks well and that's actually I mean that is a way to deal I mean to just be like what you're saying because and it's the right way in many ways because they're not necessarily, in that time especially pop going to change like you weren't going to be like you know bringing this feminist Circle the like you're going to come in and be like hey guys that's sexist and they're going like you're right and then all of a sudden the ladies come down from the wall and you know if that's just not how that was going to go with the time and you had a business to run and at the end of the day you're making your money you know you are doing the sales you are scrapping the metal and you are turning this fledgling company into a million-dollar Enterprise and so that you were laughing all the way to the bank well it'd be interesting to see the balance sheets for both like your company and the other companies like that think that they're killing it when you actually were and, just buy like listening and caring and giving them what they want not like, bringing them boxes of cigars and yes you know whatever whatever we do and they did do that and I did not. Yes and you still managed to make money imagine this by just doing the job yes I'm not using your job as an excuse to go to a strip club or whatever so how long did you have the stripes of scrap metal company and when did you get out of that about 15 years, I got out of it in 1999. Did you sell it or did you this sounds like 12 years ago so that's 21 20 some odd years ago so when you got out of it did you sell it. Yes I did yes I do sell it to like a competitor or I sold it to a competitor. And I had a company come in to evaluate it and tell me it was such a little amount of money I just looked at him and said. Seriously. And I mean I wouldn't have been able to make anything with someone like that the company that buys themselves businesses oh yeah okay so then so you had a company to come in zip comes in and buys companies and they were like again not enough and then you sold it to a competitor for a reasonable amount money. Oh absolutely yes that is very well yeah okay so 1999 you start a whole new chapter in your life and wait a minute and other question where you got kids in this where are the kids in all of this how many do you have and was it time I when I started I think, my daughter was a say 87 if I could do math I started in 87 and she was born in. So there's actually seven she was 17 and my son was 12 years younger okay so 17 there you have two kids and they're 12 years apart. Five years apart five years apart got it so she's 17 and he's 12 so how did you parent through that what was it like to have kids when you're trying to run because when both the parents are there like how I always I always worked when I was teaching, children you know so it's not much different except that. You're it's more demanding to own your own business you don't have the opportunity to get away very much the mistake that I made. Was I didn't take my first vacation until after eight years you know I should I should have been different I should have realized. That that's important but how did I Terrance. How do I pair of my daughter was older at the time she could take care of my son they were used to me working. You know when I worked before and they were small I have caretakers you know people that came in and. And I'll work out where were you where were you where were the kids raised in the beginning it was Chicago and then it interesting. Okay yes and really and so the kids I mean your daughter graduated from high school soon thereafter and then and then they obviously going to be adults in this world, yes indeed okay so 1999 they're definitely grown up at that point so where are you what do you do at 99 you sell the business and then what happens. Well I had been a part of a group that was like a what do you call a group where people help one another what do you think Association. Yeah but if it wasn't for group and networking group on networking support it support business group it was a guys nosy and I or something. Well it wasn't like that with I was in it was one guy and he did this and. When I I loved it and it helped me so much and I thought it was great so when I knew what I wanted to do I wouldn't have sold the business I was already set up and I knew this is what I wanted to do, and so I started optimal level where I have people come in, and we all sit around a table and we talk about business and it always comes into personal problems, can't get away from it so we talked about both but I also want another component I had an educational component so they had to read not a whole book. But excerpts from a book that I chose from throughout the book, and they were business books they were self-help books they were popular you know book of the Year kind of thing and I had five groups. For let's see 1999 through think it was 20. Remember exactly 18 1615 something like them somewhere in there somewhere in there and I did that for a long time and I loved every, minute of it so they were business networking groups that had a almost like a like a reading. Requirement to it it did it had a short reading requirement and first we've discussed that. And it was all you know how to how to improve your business or. How to take care of yourself better how to I have a I have three books I've written and the first one was a woman's guide to meeting life's challenges so this is a book you wrote to help women in business. Yes and here are some of the things that are in the book. This is what we discussed in the group to self-image life balance Health relationships family friends and Associates. Relationship sex romance and love. A belief system Finance work creativity passion and spirituality so this is early this is like ahead of the curve I'm like the whole like brene brown like it was yeah it was way before then and I you know I just wanted so badly to help women, that were struggling with families and struggling with how to grow their business and how to make money you know so and feel okay about it too because I feel like there's like this weird guilt and there's really no way to win as a woman like it feels like if you're doing something well you know you're neglecting your family and if you're doing it badly because you're doing your family you're not focusing on your job enough it's like you can't like when either way. So was it mostly women in your in optimal level groups all women until weiwei letter later I did a focus group and found out that men. If they could trust if they knew they could trust. Everybody in there and leader that they were they would do it too so I started with men later on it was all women for many years. And what's an example of like a success story of someone who went through that program and and came out the other side like oh gosh I have a dear friend who was a client she's does a bookkeeping service. And she started like crying and she had two children she has three now but she had two of the time. She said I don't know how to do it I don't have enough time I mean every problem. That women have and I feel guilty and I don't know where to start and she was just crying her eyes out and today. She is an example of a successful business woman her company's grown. Hers is a multimillion-dollar business now and she has keep up with her kids one sings One does you know they're just wonderful kids wonderful life she did great, well that's the thing I think that. You know it's we just need support we just women we just need to know that they're not alone in this like and that's you know that's one of the reasons why I started this podcast is because you know I have people a lot of the time not to sound like people are always saying nice things to me but they're like it looks like you've got your shit together Mary and I'm like I don't I never I don't at all and I feel like with you know. There's the idea that it's not it's not personal its business and there's this if you bring your personal life in your work it's like you were saying in your it networking groups they start off as business talks and then eventually it all turns into personal stuff because it's so hard to divorce those things, and have my family and that or my personal life and my business they bleed into each other especially when you own it and it's your social source of income and you can't just quit, and find another job like you gotta stick it out whether you whether you hate it or not, yeah I also worked with some women that were in corporations so I wrote a second book for women in corporations, who work for a bigger thing yeah I mean that's right that comes with this and I have no experience with that like I always, I had a bunch of dumb jobs in the start of my DJ company which still no one thinks of as a real thing so I don't necessarily have any corporate experience but I can't imagine I would have done well in that world there were a lot of lawyers it couldn't, go forward that it was hard for them they always said things like no one listens no one you know it was hard. So I wrote a book I also have some you know these ideas that I think will be helpful. Two people it's just my four-part magic formula and it's to achieve anything. Anything anything so the first thing is you have to have the strongest desire or passion. To succeed and I mean the strongest if you're kinda sorta I would love to that seems kind of nice. Not going to ever make it period. So that has to be very strong in the second thing you have to have is belief so I can say I want to be. An attorney but I don't believe that I've got it within me to do that or I don't believe I'll ever make it you must have belief you could see it in your mind's eye. I'm going to be this I'm going to do this the next thing is resources the third thing is resources, so you have to have the ability to find resources if you want something badly enough you can find out how to get resources when you started. Didn't have to figure out how to get things you needed yeah yeah yeah exactly so if you don't have the almost said walls if you don't have it you can have the balls the commitment. To go out and get the resources you are going to fail unfortunately. And then the entire belief resources those are three so far desire and passion belief in research with the second part of resources is you have to have the ability to implement. The resources you can get them and then sit there and do not know what the hell to do those are very important things finding and implementing resources you know I need an accountant I need a truck you know I need to find somebody a coach that can help me do this that's very important so those are the three things the fourth thing is. Persistence everyone falls down from time to time. And you must be able to get up dust yourself off and get back into the game if you quit you don't achieve. And it knocks out a lot of people it really does yeah so where do we ensure it was so worth it but were they again I want to because I have my own version of this so it was desire structure desires eischen our passion belief, desire passion belief is number two if you know it's either desire or passion their inter you know that belief. Resources ability to find an ability to implement. And the last one is persistence so somebody came up to me when I did a speech, about this and she said well what about being able to keep notes and in that stuff I said why, and she said well it won't work if you don't know how to do that I said van has understood these are this is the foundation that keep notes yeah I don't know it was really weird, you know till I know so keep notes you know, well that's good even I feel like that is getting mired down in the details and trying to come up with excuses as to why things aren't working like well you got to keep good notes you don't keep good notes you're never going to have a good business and it's like, ask a person who's actually run a business of keeping notes was the thing that was the thing that got them where they are because I have like my own version of this because my structure was mine structure resilience and resources those are the three things that I'm sorry sis is in it and resilience is like ambition person and the other and the other one is its structure structure okay all right it's a beautiful Minds missing the belief system and I feel like that's probably the because I feel like you know for me it's resources are very important, and I think that you're right this is the resources of the envelope in the implementation because you know someone can hand you a bag of money like I when I was in 10ks be, we did this we did this exercise it's called the Blue Sky in one. At 10,000 small businesses the oh yes yes that's how I met Angie no we did this exercise with they're like okay like I just gave you ten thousand dollars. It was acting evening started smaller than that like it was like let's say I gave you 500 dollars like what would you buy for your business what you what could you do with your business with five and with $500 it's really easy to spend that I can find that very quickly, and then it was like all right I just gave you ten thousand dollar. And then and it's like oh okay well ten thousand dollars gosh I could probably rent a bigger office or I could buy trucks or whatever, and then it was like a hundred thousand dollars and that got worse it was it was like Wow 100 thousand dollar cash infusion okay I guess maybe I would hire an HR person you know you kind of, but it still kind of and then it was like that I gave you five million dollars and I curl my God and I couldn't figure out how to spend it. And in a once I had to talk to through some other people I figure it out like I guess I'm franchising at that point but like being given the resource of money which everyone always thinks of his like the most important resource and it is an important resource it is extremely. But given five million dollars if you don't have to spend it correctly. You know like it's not even that it's not it's not good to have five million dollars if all of a sudden you're like looking to buy a company boat it's like what do you do for a living you're like oh we're in accounting company it's like you don't need a company boat for that you know so it's knowing how to implement it and spend it correctly to like actually grow the business and make it bigger and better. Is the you know is where the resource element of it is so I love your so I love your voice you have that a worksheet for and then we could we could post. Sure perfect so then you said you had another so okay so wait a minute so you have to be level and you've written three books and then is optimal levels not still around. No I stopped that in 2018 when I retired. And what so we're what are you doing in your retirement what does retirement like for you if I have a feeling you don't actually know you don't stop moving because you've got a podcast and you're retired yeah I went to again a therapist to learn how to retire because what happens is you question your identity. And so I went to her and I worked with her as she helped me. And the end result was you know whatever you've done is still you know even if you can't say I'm a businesswoman you know you can say I was businesswoman so I said to a friend, then I have really achieved everything I set out to do except one thing and that was to interview people all my life I wanted to interview people I told you I find the people that sell to fascinating and so I sent it to a friend she said Linda there's podcasts now hmm and I said oh I don't know anything about podcasts and another friend said. Is this knife is this one day McCabe saying I don't know and then you can't go forward and I and it just hit me boom what am I doing and so I started lightning strikes, and it's been so much fun I get to me people like you and I have had I think my 36, podcast so far and it's really fascinating to listen to everybody and it's called lightning strikes because. My guests are so wise. And have so much to offer everyone else that when one of those ideas comes through as Lightning Strikes and you can hear it on the podcast, and of course we have, lovely Mary nisi yes our guests and it was wonderful I loved being on your podcast and yeah I think you're right I love the idea of like. Kind of summarizing it melting it down to just lightning strikes because I feel like that's the entrepreneurial Zeal right that's like entrepreneurship and in a nutshell is the kind of people were they get an idea. And it really does kind of hit you like every time I've done anything everything I've ever done professionally it's always been this like, this is the rest of my life no this is the rest of my life and in many ways it kind of is because I wind up bringing that new thing in and it winds up being and you know I do too much. I need to figure out how to like Whittle it down a little bit but it's true like whenever had an idea and it's all I can think about and it's you know I wind up trying to implement it to the best of my ability and I feel like that's what most entrepreneurs are like it's where they they get an idea that is so strong and they just have to make it happen whether, you know he'll come hell or high water well I've told you before that you remind me of me when I was your age. And one of the things that everyone said to me over and over again family and business, is how in the world do you do everything you do you do so much you know I was always going going going going and I became comfortable with it I didn't feel that there was something that I had a six or that I was broken I just kind of yeah okay I do a lot of things. It's like when I am when I'm on like on Twitter or something and some of like I've run out of TV shows to watch because someone's recommend TV shows like how would you run it I can I have like, 20 minutes of television and be a night and that's cuz I'm doing too many things the joke I like to make is I'm like a shark I'll die if I stop moving. And I'm okay with that like I you know I do a lot of stuff like I have a lot of hobbies, like we're trying to sell our house right now and our realtor was like you got a lot of go to projects in this house and I'm like yeah because if my husband who met my husband and I are both were like you know I keep bees he has a saltwater aquarium we read a lot, there's cook I don't know there's just a lot going on in our house and that's just when I'm at home and then that's wonderful so you've got the podcast and do go on those vacations now. I'm not interested in traveling because after I started my vacations we started doing a lot of traveling and I've been to you know Europe and why Alaska all of that and everywhere and, now I just want to travel the way the travel industry is now so, no I don't but they seem most all people go and travel I travel when I was younger so what do you do so what's what is your life like now just the podcast and. Not right now also belong to this fabulous organization called zonta it's been around for a hundred and one years and its purpose is to help women, part of it is marriage stopping child marriage part of it is stopping violence and part of it is education for whip for women we give out scholarships so it's a fabulous organization everyone should look it up zonta International. And where was it where is it started I think it was started I should know I don't have that in front of me and I don't remember but I think. It may have been started in England it's an international company it's all over Germany all African countries we have so many people that are part of it that that are all over the words global. And it's an it's an organization to help women deal with violence and trafficking and education yes and education so in what do you do for them. I belong to a club because that's how it's structured and we have programs where, we have like working with a company that helps women just you know organization and we do things for them so you can file and we do volunteer charity things, and was keeping me busy as so much fun I always wanted to be in a book club I was never in a book club, and in my club I started a book club so we're reading stuff we do that when there's some kind of affair or some kind of event you know we bring brochures and we have a table so I like to do that and then to tell you the truth. This is actually the truth I networked so much during my years with optimal level. I made some very dear friends very dear friends. And I'm going out to lunches with them and stuff like that and it keeps me busy but I enjoy seeing all of them and catching up with them so I don't have, to tell you a whole lot that I'm doing now but it keeps me busy. That's the dream that's the dream right is to like just hang out with your friends and help people and yeah this organization zonta has lots of activities I'm always going to them, and then hanging out with my friends you're right and doing the podcast and anything yet put it this nice I love to hear that. That what this is a dream so thank you Anna it is the dream I mean you got to have a get a couple amazing careers. And you got to work with is your husband your husband is did he. Is he still around he is still around but he doesn't do anything he did so when you sell the building in night that business in 1999 what did he go and do. He stayed with them for about five years he stayed with them for about five years yeah. Some and retired and then retired so he's just chilling himself he's got his own group of dudes that he's hanging out with. Queen squash or something right so how can people find you what would you like to we've got your we've got the podcast people can obviously subscribe to and listen to and love Yeah and you've got three books yes I do the most recent is, how to be powerful Insider secrets to brilliant leadership sales and speaking and that is with Sarah and I wrote it. Because that's a book of Sarah Victory who is also an amazing human being and then we've got the first book the optimal level book. I know what was the what was the SEC what was the third book. Sanity and success for working women a quick guide to survive and thrive in the corporate world. This these are all books that every I need to read I need to read all of them because they all said many things that I need to know and can they get those where can they buy those books there are an Amazon. All right my son excellent so we'll put a link to that in the show notes and this has been a wonderful interview I can always it's always nice to interview people who are actually people who interview people because they're tight, you're a pro everything sounded great thank you so much I hope it was good enough for what you wanted are you kidding me this is amazing I okay like I feel like, this that I don't know I kind of want to just keep going forever I could talk to you forever well we should I want to I want I want to go I would be one of your ladies you have lunch with yes and I want you to be because I was very, very impressed with you and you remind me of me if you want to go out with an old lady. I'm happy to do it well you actually remind me a lot of my mom if I'm being honest and you know she's not with us anymore so I'm gonna like you know so Simon, yeah yeah thank you but anyway well thank you so much Linda McKay this has been incredible and everybody find her follow her she's amazing thank you. Music. Thanks for listening to all up in my lady business it is written by me Mary nisi, it is produced by Christina sorum Williams and Amelia Ruby with softer sounds, it is recorded at the toast and jam offices in Logan Square in Chicago, you can find resources and links from this episode in the show notes at all up in my lady business.com, if you enjoyed this episode and you did Smash that subscribe button and if you're the kind of person that reviews things on the internet please rate and review us wherever you listen to us it really does help people find us follow us on all of your socials and don't forget whatever you do this week do it with your whole ass thanks for listening. Music.