Back in Business - Rewriting the Mother Code With Dr. Gertrude Lyons

SPEAKER_00 0:15

My business is your business. It's all within my lady business with me.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Here we are today with the force of nature that is Dr. Gertrude Lyons, who is a coach and educator in women's leadership development, parenting, and relationship satisfaction. As the founder of Rewrite the Mother Code, there's no way to like just say that and not have follow-up questions. She inspires women to choose their own personal transformations and has spent the last 21 years empowering individuals, couples, parents, and families to realize meaningful, successful lives. And then there's a lot of other things she does, but I just want to get right into it. So I'm going to project my own personal narrative onto you, but I'm assuming rewrite the mother code is probably some kind of reaction to your own mother, the way you were parented.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Yes. So the simple answer to that is yes. And we then take that into everything we do, but, you know, with the work I do, into our own mothering. And decisions that we make consciously and unconsciously are so impacted by our own mothering that, you know, if if you want to bring a certain level of consciousness, awareness, and sovereignty and and your own self-guided experience, looking at that relationship is pretty critical.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I mean, I mean, I guess could you say I've been looking at it because I've been in therapy for like 25 years? Yes. Is that is that part of part of the process?

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Maybe you've looked at like what, you know, the painful aspects of it, what needed to get healed, you know, what what your um you know wounds are from it, right? That are of which there are many.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Of which there are many.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yeah. And uh to honor those, to work on what does it mean to heal them, to, you know, sometimes that involves, I mean, for me, it involved definitely involved being in contact with my mother to share what those were and do some of it in relationship with her that at the time maybe didn't look like it went so well, but I know has at some level us naming our resentments, naming the things that did not go well and right, but then not staying in blame, right? We can't be victims to it. Um, but we do have a right to go back and feel the feelings that we didn't and look at the coping mechanisms that we came up with to survive, I'm gonna say, you know, at what whatever level, because it feels like that as a child, even in the best circumstances, we need to do whatever we need to do to survive. So we, you know, create personas and personalities and healthy at the time because it's what we need as kids, but then later they don't work so well. And yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

And so, like, would you would you say you went down the road of trying to conquer this or conquer is never probably never gonna happen, but you know, try to unravel it like uh because of your mom? Like, is there like is there more to it than just your mom or just is it like the archetypal mother? I think Mother Earth or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

If I look at myself, there was a, ooh, if I wanna like, you know, when you first I don't know, when I first started, and I think this can be true, it's like when you first decide to go on any kind of personal growth journey, um, it's some some manner at all, you know, looking at our past and looking at our most pivotal relationships, our mother being a significant one, our father too, you know, depending on what the dynamic was, your your main caregivers. I did that for me. And at that time, you know, for my relationship with my new husband, right? Like, oh, those wiring that it really impacts that, right? So then when it came to looking at, you know, decisions around us deciding to have a family, it's like, oh, what is being what decision, how are we making decisions just reactively out of like, oh, I don't want to do it like my mom? Like so much of what rewrite the mother code is is just raising awareness of what the codes are, what the wiring is, so that you have more choice in how you do that. The rewriting it and like all of this came later when I looked back at my own mothering and my own mothering and my kids' experience.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

So and I mean, I guess, you know, like the mother code are is it something that we're we're taking it back to? I mean, or is it like trying to unravel like the patriarchy and the systematic ways in which we can all kind of be like even the most well-meaning of us, like I mean, I I consider myself this, you know, died in the wool feminist. Like I'm the I'm the one who's gonna be like, uh, that's not funny. Like, I'm always, you know, I'm willing to point out where a man fucked up everything all the time. Like, I have no no problem with that. Um, but I do find myself fine doing like very stereotypical, like I'm the one that folds the laundry. And John, or I shouldn't name him, but he is my husband, John. We all know who he is. Like, it's like whenever he tries to fold the laundry, he's like, it's like he's just jamming it all together. And it's like, and I'm always like, oh, he's just not good at it. And then I'm like, wait a minute, it is shaking a shirt and it is folding it four times.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

How that's not a that's learned helplessness, is what that is, but it doesn't sh but it well, it's so that's kind of more of a matter of, do you care? Right? Yes, that we fall into certain roles, like that might be looked at more as the you know, feminine mother role to tend to those things. My husband is a way better folder than I am, and he he we have someone help us with laundry and he refolds it, right, for himself.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Um, because it's not that's more of a like type A, like it's gotta be perfect. Um, so I'm just saying that because so much of sometimes what comes up is you know, once when we look at our beliefs, what our cultural, you know, the we're in a patriarchal, out of balance, you know, paradigm right now. So we are fighting against that. But what is it and where does it show up? And where where am I not having the possible experience I could have if I wasn't following it?

SPEAKER_01 6:43

And what one thing I was really I mean, that I was thinking about the other day is like, you know, I you know, I was thinking about like how there's certain sects of like Christianity or whatever that women should not, you know, they should they be at the home and they shouldn't they should follow their husband. And that's just like from a like a genetic, like that's just what women are. And it was like the same kind of like, yeah, and I hope I don't get dogged for saying this, but it's kind of like the same thing that was around slavery. It's like they like being slaves. Like that's you know, it's like, but when given the pot the potential to do more, you know, it's like, oh, all of a sudden women can be doctors and people of color can do anything. And it's like I feel like if I was meant to be a man's subservient thing, I wouldn't have the desire or the ability to be strong, you know, to do the manly them, you know, like own businesses or put a nail in the wall. Things that are typically like masculine behaviors. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

It's not really a question, just a thing I was thinking about. And I I love just the thought that just that you're thinking about that, right? Um, because I personally don't believe that our sole purpose is to give birth and you know, raise children. Like that's why we're the ultimate reason why we're on this planet is is to do that and you know, take care of those kids and take care of the man, right? Like that a hundred percent doesn't feel right, but it doesn't mean that we can't value that and enjoy me. It's that it's undervalued, right? So there's two things. There's well, that's your purpose, and don't expect you shouldn't even think about doing anything else and you're not capable. Like, well, guess what? We are, you know, like and I think we would just die once we're not childbearing anymore if we didn't have a larger purpose. And that raising children isn't our pent-all, like doesn't make us a woman, it doesn't make us a person, it isn't our sole reason for being on this earth.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Well, and it's, you know, the problem we, you know, it's like I feel like the world is set up for, at least in America, I don't, I can't really speak for their countries, but like, you know, the way that a lot of, especially once you have kids, it's set up to support a system where there's a man at work and a wife at home who's dealing with everything. And it's like even the fact that school starts at nine and ends at three. It's like my husband's been in my husband's been at school at work for two hours by the time my kid starts school and doesn't get out for another couple of hours. Like, who's picking that kid up? Who's dropping that kid off? And it's like it's or if there's like a half day for no reason, which seems to happen all the time, it's like I have to just and it and in the supposition, I mean, in our situation, it's like I'm the one who's gonna take care of it for the most part because I work for myself, so I've got the flexibility. And that's not to say my husband does a lot. I mean, I feel like I'm in a more one of the better of the, you know, weighted of the labor in the household. But the world, the world is not set up to to help the woman who is uh who is trying to not just have that one path. And, you know, it's like I I'm on a lot of like mom groups on Facebook or on Reddit or whatever. And there's always moms who are like, you know, like am I there's a there's a subreddit called Am I the Asshole where people will write in and be like, this happened to me? Like I'm they're telling me I'm the wrong person, like, am I the wrong person? And like people will be like, you're a total asshole, or they'll be like, You're not the asshole. And a lot of them are like, I'm a stay-at-home mom and I've got four kids, and my husband comes home from work and just like sits down, and I it's like, and I have to do everything, and I'm becoming really resentful, and I don't know why. And it's you know, and it's it's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

It's it really is that she's questioning that she shouldn't have feelings about that, right? Like that, am I an asshole for feeling resentful? Like 100% no, you know, and we we're not taught like the skills to we're not, we don't have the beliefs that like, oh, we're a system, we're a family, and we're all gonna figure out like our best use and a way that this works for everybody, right? And that we all can get nourished. And it's not my job to put myself last, put you all first, and take the dregs and get and you know, be the one eating crumbs. That doesn't work. It doesn't help, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Well, it works for a little bit, but when it stops working and they don't understand the agency that they could potentially have, it just leaks out in these shitty ways. It either, you know, it's like your kid is getting ignored, or you know, you become an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Or you're feeling that you know, not by not taking care of yourself and in, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Well, and it's like the idea, I think the concept is like, oh, well, I go to work and you get your job is you get to be home. And so then, you know, when you're home, you're never off the job. You're always on the clock and it never ends. Oh my God, I would, I would murder my life if that was what it was. And I know I'm I feel for those who are in those situations because I, you know, it's like when you were saying when you were getting married, you know, and you wanted are we just mindlessly doing what you know, the society is told us we have to do? Or are we making decisions based on like what we actually want and need out of what we're doing?

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Well, and you know, taking a moment to look at like when so it was my boss at the time who recommended when I got engaged, like, hey, what you know, I I'd well actually he said it not so nicely. I really recommend that you get premarital coaching or count, like it was therapy at the time. And you know, this was 1989. And um, it was like, what? You know, what are you talking about? Like, why would you do that? Like, I just met like this amazing guy and we're getting married and it's gonna be great. Right. But there was some, I'm just so grateful that I, I don't know, something clicked where I was like, hmm, well, if I think about this from the standpoint of uh if my our parents, his parents, my parents were our teachers and they were the model for relationship. Oh, guess what? Like there's alcoholism, there's divorce, there's infidelity, there's um, you know, living separate lives, you know, maybe I and I don't want that, and I'd like a relationship, even just that lasts, you know. I I didn't even know how much like to yearn for tons of depth and intimacy. It was just like, how do you not have these awful things happen? Um, maybe talking to somebody about that and being a a little more thoughtful about it would be useful.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

I yeah, we my ther my therapist also recommended that. And initially was like, I like to do that because I'm sure they're gonna come up with questions I haven't thought about. But is my husband gonna or my my fiance want to? And I wouldn't, I'm like, hey John, my therapist said we should do it. He's like, Oh, okay. And I'm like, wow, that wasn't easy, that wasn't easy. And when we got in there, he just wouldn't stop talking. I'm like, I think maybe you need a therapist. But you know, they're asking things like you both lost your job and you're broke. How would you feel? I mean, like it was like asking questions that we had I hadn't thought about what would happen if you know, like we got kicked out of our house, which all of us are just a couple bad decisions away from being homeless, which is not something I didn't really really realize until you know recently. But I think it's good to go through trouble's therapy before we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Oh, there's such a thing as vision and setting goals and you know, looking mind, not you know, looking, you know, discerningly at like, well, what did work in our parents really? Like, because we are we early on in this, you know, process, we went to a seminar called your parents' marriage or yours, you know, where isn't that great? Like I've now I've since taught, you know, I I'd love that because I love us looking at genograms and where you, you know, look and visually can see patterns, you know, that are passed down, and and to know that I can interrupt those and I can make different decisions that end the dysfunctional or the the traumatic, you know, generational issues is really pretty powerful, right? That we're not, but unl until we realize that we're in that sea, that we're fish, you know, swimming in that, we're either gonna act react reactively like, oh, that was terrible that my parents did. So I'm gonna not do that. Or I'm just gonna c do the same thing and either think I'm doing it differently or just not be aware, oh, look at here we are. Oh, oh my gosh, look at my husband's having an affair. Wow, how'd that happen? You know?

SPEAKER_01 15:28

And then you and then if you were to really look back on it, it's like, oh, I watched my parents go through this or whatever, like, you know, as you get older and you're ugh, the way the patterns just re go on, it's it is especially when you get older, you know, and you're kind of like I'm like the age when I started realizing what my mom, like I was let's see, when I when my mom was 48, I was, I guess I was like 14, you know, so I guess I really knew who she was when she was 48, you know, and it's like I am doing so many things that she used to do that I didn't used to do. Like getting my nails done, like it from a very basic level. Like I wouldn't I never got my nails done. And then now all of a sudden I'm like fake nails. I'm like, what is this? What is this? And um, or like, you know, I don't ever put on makeup if I have to if I don't have to. And I'm always wearing and I'm always I kind of have become this sort of I'm like, do I am I the middle-aged lumpy lady that I always said I'd never be? And do I care if I am?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

Like that's that's the bigger thing, right? Like, because when we're just have that extra level of consciousness, we're choosing it, right? And we're we're not pretending that we're not choosing it. It's like understanding where we came from, identifying patterns so that we have more choice, right? Raise awareness so we have more choice, we have more requisite variety of options than just being reactive to either our family culture or the culture around us, or swimming in the sea and and unconsciously like doing what everybody else is doing and wondering why we don't feel good. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah. I mean, and so I guess when you so how did you get into the rewriting the mother code? Like how did you develop, how did you decide, how did you, how did you uncover the mother code?

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yeah, well, it you know, somewhat of what I mentioned in in this process, I I went, you know, I I became a life coach. I was in this arena, I was coaching and supporting other moms and parents, and you know, I was very much in this, in this field, right? So as I was raising our daughters. And there were aspects of it at the beginning where I was like, wow, I'm like really I had this experience of what it's like to more mindfully, you know, with more consciousness, more self-awareness, make choices about how we conceived, about how we gave birth, and and in there, and then, you know, early in new motherhood was challenging to say the least, and and some of those choices, and it my kind of fervor for rocking the boat, you know, both in my relationship. I think some things got really real, and I kind of went into that, wow, I gotta protect these kids and I don't wanna like rock the boat anymore. And so I I started becoming kind of a little more typical for our culture, like lose myself and my children. We were parenting consciously, but I had I stopped pretty much put a halt to my own growth and development in it, right? Like put myself aside, like quote unquote, for the benefit of my children, but like I was just too scared to go there. You know. So when I realized later, like, gosh, I um I really did lose myself. I would like, and I had a lot of support around me. I was in a growth environment, I was working at a personal growth organization, and this was still hard for me. It was still, you know, it was hard to stay in that kind of arena, but I some women did, and some of the women I was coaching did, and some of the women I saw around me, and I I really saw some beautiful things happening with them as they grew and challenged themselves with their children. So I'm like, hmm, what happened to me? And kind of out of that regret and remorse of of my own stopping. I'm like, I want to study this. I want to like understand this more. I want to, you know, take what happened to me and, you know, at least shine the light on this possibility to the extent I knew it from the experience I had, and then the women that I coached and make this this is a conversation that needs to be more out in the world, right? That there's kind of kind of going back to the, you know, is it just our purpose here to like spit like pop these kids out? Um, no, I think there's this huge opportunity, you know, for ourselves and our own manifestation, our own, you know, expansion in this whole arena of raising children, giving birth, raising children, that goes way beyond the mechanics of it, way beyond that like the limited patriarchal way that we're going about it. So that's what got me like doing my master's and then doing a doctorate in it. Um and so when I did that, and then I came out, it was like, oh, you know, what is this? And how do I, what do I want women to know? And so I worked with an agency actually that where we came up with the name, like first it was like the mother code, right? Like there's this code. But then it was like, well, I don't want it to sound like now I have the code. It's now we need to rewrite the code that whatever the current code is, and whatever your personal code is, like, how do I help women identify it so that we can have this more expansive experience, you know, that we can expand the definition of motherhood to be more inclusive, that all women mother, you know, that we mother our our businesses, our dreams, our relationships, and children. And the most important person we need to mother is ourselves for the benefit of ourselves, but for the benefit, you know, and I and then it got bigger for me, you know, the world needs more mother. We need this creative, nurturing, creative destroyer, like, you know, feminine value aspect in the world. But uh, even if a woman just wants to do it for herself and have a better mothering experience, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

I mean, on the flip side of all of that, like, is there a father code?

SPEAKER_03 21:28

There is, but you know, but that's the patriarchy, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

So then you're saying that the mother code then is sort of the not like the negative.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yes, like it's it's that like weight we've been under, right? It's that, it's the the wiring that isn't working for us. It's the restrictive, limited birth as a business, parenting as a business you know, as a and I'm saying this not so much man woman as I am masculine, feminine, like out of balance way that we're living. So, yes, there, I mean there. is there are certainly like the father code is more like it's not okay to have emotions.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Like they they certainly have, you know, there are ways that aren't supporting them to have the full, you know, father manhood experience that they could have, you know, and I mean what I kind of come to realize is the patriarchy helps no one. Nobody does well in the patriarchy. Like, yeah, men maybe get to have more like assumed, you know, control or power or, you know, agency. But what comes with that is then, you know, fear. And if they if they lose that thing, what do they even mean? And you know, the ego of it all is just so it is hard there to be.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Oh my gosh, no, I'm blanking on her name, but the book uh Mother Piece, I thought she did a great job talking about the patriarch. And she's like, you know, patriarchs aren't happy. They're not happy people because even if they've just like, you know, dominated a new kingdom, you know, so to speak, they're only worrying about how to protect it and and who's gonna and keep it. So how can you ever be at peace or happy, you know, with under that kind of and it doesn't mean like that we should then be all matriarchal either. To me it's about like the balance and valuing both equally and you know one and the other supporting the other.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

You know, I well and and valuing women like you know it's like the not wanting to have kids or if you don't like women who don't have kids are so threatening to men. And I don't understand why exactly. And it's like then or if you do have kids, once you've done having the kids and you cross the Rubicon into 40, it's like you might as well be invisible. And it feels like I feel more in my power now than I ever have. And I feel like that's the same for all of my friends. Like it's all like you know like we don't give a fuck anymore. And we, you know, and I'm sure I hope that and from what I hear that only continues to get better. And it's like it's interesting that from an evolutionary standpoint that the second we stop having kids, we become more ourselves. I know. Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Like I'm I'm just reading a book Eve like I don't know if you've heard of that it's 200 million years of the evolution of women and um I just opened it but I I'm she's tackling the like why what what is men why are why have women why do we still live you know kind of thing and it's way beyond the like gram like oh to help the mothers you know and and be a grandmas because it is a hard job and she does kind of say like there's some good reasoning there, but there's more to it than that.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Wait reasoning for what?

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Why women live longer than childbearing. Oh you know oh oh good yes because there's a lot of animals that like someone dies like after she bows being the only like there are maybe I think oracle whale I don't know I think there's a whale species that lives beyond their childbearing. We're like the only ones that do that. And uh I know, right? So these are like cool questions, but of course we have we haven't been studying them because we only studied like the male side of everything for so long.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So you know I have my my degrees in art history which I feel like I talk about a lot like in a it's it's not like I do anything with it, but you know I think I found myself thinking not too long ago about like all of the pieces of art that are like canon, you know, that we all know about and you know so much of the art that was you know that we see as canon was stuff that was like you know that was you know the the the Vatican commissioned or you know or you know the Caravaggio's you know the m the Medici were giving him money to like be able to make stuff. So then they only make these biblical they only paint biblical things because that's like the only book anybody had. And I wonder like some of it just doesn't I mean it it's fine. And it's like the best that could have been made at that time, you know, because of like the the the materials that they had or whatever. And I just wondered to myself like God if women were allowed to make art what what would it have like if if like they just weren't allowed to or if they were it was in secret and then the man just go oh that's a really good painting paint over no they'd put it in their name. Yeah oh yeah I mean yeah yes there's also that that's all there's also that. And so it's like I think about like the all of these masters even some of the writing because I like some of the poems and the books and the things I mean you know obviously the best stuff rose to the top but a lot of the stuff that rises to the stop is not necessarily the best it's just who had a bet who had better friends in higher places.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Well you think about it was so much of it because of what you're saying it's it's making me you know think about the fact that it was you know that was patriarchal PR right like it was all painted through that image right and patriarchal slash like I mean if you want to bring in like you know because when you were bringing up you know the Medicine at that time it's like Jesus and she wasn't no she was you know um Palestinian yeah exactly Jewish woman and look nothing like that that it it would have if a woman was doing it it would be it would be real right it would be what it really if if we weren't yeah trying to like use it for some power play or use it like in in our own ego image like let's make these godly people of the Bible like look like us. And that's what they would do, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

And it makes sense to a certain extent like if you lived in Italy and you've lived in Italy your whole life and you never left Italy and you only knew Italians, you're gonna paint people they're gonna look like you because that's all you know. But I will tell you I'm embarrassed to say that it didn't even occur to me that Jesus as a person wasn't white until I went to college.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

I don't think it occurred to me till after college you know until I started thinking a little and I went to Catholic colleges.

unknown 28:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Oh me too I went to DePaul and it's like and I remember seeing like pictures of black Jesus like they would like you know it's like black churches would have pictures of black Jesus and I'd be like that's weird like Jesus was black you know like so it's like white supremacy a little bit of racism like being raised in Nebraska has its um lack of uh any diversity so I'll tell you I just to name this because as we're talking about this and um I recently read a book called The Madonna Secret by Sophie Strand and uh I have to say it's it's like as a as a woman and just from my intuitive like depth like oh this is probably how it went down right what was it what was it um well I don't want to give it it away but she you know she gives the story of Mary Magdalene and Jesus's relationship which is documented right that they were a couple not him as a savior of her as this whore that whore no you know that was all patriarchal propaganda um but just what their relationship was like what his he had a he had a mother Mary and brothers and sisters you know like just that these were real people but they were healers right and how she as the woman got completely wiped out of the picture and demoted to whore right and so there you see like wait a minute so Mary Magdalene was in a relationship with Jesus yeah and she was basically I don't I don't think I knew this. And so she was wiped she was turned into a whore because she had a relationship with Jesus basically well and and she was a healer and she was doing all the same things that Jesus was um but you know that was witchcraft that was you were possessed as as a woman at that time if you showed any signs of that but a man you know he's a miraculous healer and it wasn't like in this putting down way it's like the way she is able to like you know imagine kind of and and it's you know it's historical fiction right like it's not like she just made it up out of like here's what I think happened like you know this is looking at records also you know and and what what might have what potentially could have gone down that's still very mystical and beautiful and and whatnot and you know I always I always try and get people to read it so we could talk about it because there's just certain things like he it sounds very juicy. It's very juicy. It's like I it's a big thick book and I can be a slow reader but it's one of those like I couldn't put down for like I'm like and she's just a very good writer too. But anyway it's bringing up that point like how you know how something can get so wired in like this is even if it doesn't sit right with us or feel right or like well why are there no why is it all guys? Like why why is it only the men that are important in this story? You know and the women are just whores or and just or or not even there.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Not even part of it. Yeah not even there and and so I guess as a Christian woman it can be very easy to like write yourself out of the story because all I've ever seen is just men in power, men in power. And you know if a woman tries to be even a little bit mouthy she becomes a whore or she's drowned as a witch.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

You know and is is that the reason why they made you know Jesus's birth virgin so that you know the sex that we all find so disgusting wasn't a part of his creation.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

You know I wish I always like want to be able to say this reference better, but um the original like language like the original meaning of virgin isn't like pure chase like not been touched by man. It's actually very powerful like agency of a woman um and you know virgin is like I am I stand on my own and I am a unique like powerful kick ass being and you know I have choice.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Like that's actually more what virgin means than like oh I haven't had sex with someone kind of I'm I'm untouched and everything about me is me. Like I don't have the influence of something like someone's penis hasn't turned me into something else yet which is what penises are very easy it's they're very powerful that way. Penises can turn you from one thing to another within you know seconds. That's really interesting. You know what I learned recently and I wish I knew the word maybe you'll know because I feel like it probably was mentioned in one of your books that you've that that you're that you've been re talking about. But um there is a word that we I I don't want to like I think it's like it's not Jezebel but it's like one of those words was the name of there was a second woman in Eden according to this thing and like Eve was the one who was willing to to go with to do it with Adam and the other one was like I don't need men and so she got cast out.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

God what was her name but there's like but I didn't even know that I didn't even know this one either but now I'm gonna find out um because I love these these little ways in which these words have waited well history has rewritten you know been rewritten over and over and only you know the current culture of what they want you to see is is what you see and what we then think and believe right and even I'm not saying like hers was the true but just to get us thinking like there's more than one possibility here. We no one was there, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:32

No one was and we're gonna turn this into the influence that we want it to be for you know in a patriarchal culture for my best interest you know and what's if you if we're gonna use the concept I can't believe which we're talking about the Bible but the concept of of Jesus and Mary Magdalene and then like they were the same. Like they were both healers it's like I think about how many times I get compliments and I'm like shut up no you come on I'm not that cool. Like we're all so willing to like either a downplay our successes or not even see the things we're doing as cool or important or worthwhile because we just do them. We're just doing it. Like I'm not looking for somebody to give me throw me a parade because I I don't know did something cool. I'm just gonna do it. And so it's like Mary Magdalene's out there just healing people and healing them but like Jesus is getting all of the PR about it and he's like yay look at me I'm a healer. I'm turning water to wine and Mary Magdalene's over here is like I turned it into a full bar but you don't see me like trying to you know get people to include me in history in a positive light.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

No and it is really interesting how she works with that, you know, in the book like where she tries to temper his his ego to a certain extent or where he gets pulled you know kind of into that because I I think even even in the current version you know our known version of the Bible like I believe like Jesus is kind of more of a better balance of masculine feminine you know he is to an extent but uh I like that she shows like where like yeah like I'm gonna like she but there were times like no you you shouldn't raise Lazarus from the dead like that just don't like stop really yeah um and she's like that I just feel it in the core of my body that like that shouldn't happen like don't do it and he's like but for his own not like even so much from this account right like I just want to show that I can it's like he thought he was doing something that would help her and the family and it's like no I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

And but I mean he didn't really do that though.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

I mean if you really I mean he probably didn't raise a person from the dead well we don't know right probably a pretty good reason probably probably a pretty good explanation for I mean sure yeah I mean but if we want to like go there and like these kind of miracles can happen I like that she you know is saying like the different perspectives and come from like having that having that happen. Is this Bible that you're saying that you're speaking of that's is it like the King James version or are there like newer versions of the Bible than that which uh the the Madonna I'm talking about no the you said the the the way the Bible is written now is well I just think like when you hear of Jesus and his you know there's enough that's just in any like Bible version of like his love of children he wanted peace you know he you know what I mean like he was he was a pacifist like you know he wasn't like let's not raise arms you know to the wrong let's let's you know love thy neighbor kind of thing right like let's be you know he he had more of that than it was like hey I want to he didn't want to start a church he just he you know from that was never didn't look like to me he was on in the road to that um that happened through Paul right so and I'm I'm not an expert but whatsoever this is this yeah this is gone we've we've gotten to a really weird place let's get out of the Bible anyway um so well we'll we'll back to like all the ways we're wired so if you're in a Christian framework like you have that like you know in you whether you like it or not right in Judaism you have you know the Torah you know you you have the Quran you know you have your your books your influences your you know your cultures that so to me it's just about being oh okay to like ask questions about it and really go on a path to like see what what feels right to you.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

What are what are other possible scenarios? Well and I guess the thing is is that when I start thinking about these things and talking about it and feeling it, I'm like, God, we just need to change it. We gotta we gotta get we something has to change. We gotta figure out how. And it's like how? Especially when you like look at like how I mean I guess you and I, you know, it's like be this be the change you want to see in the world, you know, like you know try to do good things and it'll go out into the world and hopefully it'll, you know but that's like when you when I think about a world where Donald Trump is still going to be the the the Republican nominee without even really doing anything to do it, to deserve it. And in fact he's quite doing a lot of things to not like how do we get out of this? Like it feels it feels very gross, at least in America right now, that and it seems like there's also these like, you know, it it just doesn't feel like we're heading towards more parity, I guess is the I mean and we are because there's more people that are feeling that way but I feel like it's still there's so many of the bigger things that kind of control our world that are like dominated by men. And women have kind of gotten there a little bit, but like they're usually seen as like rabble rousers and you know not serious players in the power structures.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Yeah I I mean I feel like in some ways it it's like women have so much more choice and autonomy than we did a hundred years ago, you know, or 200 like in recent history. And at the same time it's like you know unraveling like 6,000 years of this is probably gonna take a while if we don't destroy ourselves in the meantime. Yeah. You know um and I and I I I obviously don't have an answer to that. I then I just kind of go back to like okay I can start with me. I can, you know, your you know and what has meaning to you and the work you're doing you know is I just choose to believe it makes a difference. Right. And there'll be enough of us along the way that that can or it's going to take us starting over and hopefully you know women will be the ones that they'll have more agency or s they understand the value that we're bringing to the situation.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

I mean I don't think we would be in this war situation with anybody if there were more women in charge. Like I my instinct is never to beat anybody up you know like I or start a proxy war with another country. Like I I don't know I just feel like our time here is so short and we really don't know what's going to happen afterwards. Like I mean can't we just chill? Like if there's nature and beauty out there and I get access to it so little. Part of it is because where I live there's not a whole lot of beauty in the Chicagoland area. I mean it's like nice but it's not like waterfalls. So you wrote the book and then you have like what is what do you think I haven't read a book yet I'm writing a book.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Oh you're writing a book okay yes I'm writing a I mean a dissertation is a book but it's not a book anybody reads. Um and I've um you know written articles and I've written a couple chapters that are coming out this year and some anthologies but you know I'm writing a mainstream book on Rewrite the Mother Code that, you know, you it's my own labor of love. It's like a third child and I'm doing it you know for my own transformational experience opportunity in the hopes that it speaks to you know brings some of these issues that we're talking to to light in a way that makes sense to some people and they do it a little bit differently and we keep you know moving that needle to be you know women who decide to make different choices, make choices that feel right to them, you know, bring feminine values into their mothering their relationships their you know their careers their worlds and I really do like to hold hope that we'll get there. You know, but that's why I kind of came up with this like the world needs more mother right we need no destroy the things like that aren't working in order to create like this cycle of life right birth and death it's it's a beautiful thing. You know we can't gonna live forever and you know it there's cycles to our lives or cycles to you know the planet and I hope this cycle of the patriarchy dominating isn't the you know our legacy forever.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

What so if I so if I wanted to hire you for the rewiring of the mother code are there like three things that someone could do like baby steps to kind of start trying to unravel this if they have they haven't seen the Barbie movie yet. They've got no idea what feminism is seeing the Barbie movie would be a start right like that should be required required watching for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

It should it really should I I a hundred percent agree because that like you know so it's I mean usually people you know that find me or come to me they're they've started to ask the question like you know like it could be anything from like my I I like a lot of the things the way my life is but I know that there's more right or I don't feel like I'm fully living my life fully as the woman that I am okay so you know or or specifically it's about mothering or motherhood and they see you know the women around them like looking tired, exhausted and not enjoying like what why would I sign up for that you know kind of thing um so the first thing this is going to sound bigger than just like a simple step but it's really understanding that you can create a vision for yourself for how you want it to be right that that I always have women start with like what's their vision for themselves? Like what are the values the qualities the like way of being um that matter to you that you want to then set goals around to achieve right so that's kind of a bigger broader one. Emotional intelligence always comes in pretty significantly and when I work with people is under being able to understand, name, realize that we're emotional beings that think and it's also a feminine value. But you know to and most of us have it was a language we were fluid in that a lot of us need to get reacquainted with so that we can make higher level decisions. So that we can you know be true to ourselves and and you know make choices and decisions that or even like trust that what you're what that what

SPEAKER_01 44:01

What you're thinking is accurate and that it's valuable and and is real. I think I I always think whenever I'm watching awards shows, no one ever thanks their dad. They always thank their mom, but they never thank their dads. And I always think that's interesting. Like, you know, like is it because your dad didn't foster this in you or didn't believe in you? You know, I don't know. That's just an interesting thing to kind of realize. And it's like, that's because your mom was had good thoughts and right thoughts and knew who you were, yeah, you know, from a very young age. But anyway, go on, sorry. So that's number two.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

You're right on. Right. Like the um the emotional and intelligence aspect. And then um, and uh from there, usually like, and this is where it's always hard. Like it's not like you know, a linear step, because usually, like what once you've started doing that, like things start to emerge around what are you know beliefs that I have that I can't have the this vision that I just came up with, this ideal state, like that's not possible because blah, blah, blah. I'm not good enough. I don't know how. Um money, time, my kids. Money, time, exactly. So then, you know, it there's some generalities, but it is starting to name like what are the blocks or barriers in the way of having it how you want it or what you think is possible, and to start unpacking those. Um, and you know, there you can get you can get as be as any level of awareness is going to take you in some other some new direction. But the deeper you go with them and the deeper you let yourself like go into that unconscious territory and, you know, have those uh feelings that you didn't even know were there. And they might be memories, they might be feelings that are driving and dictating, you know, how you operate and you don't even know it, the more potential there is for you to make choices that are more in line with that vision, more satisfying, more fulfilling, more like, oh, okay. And, you know, really learning to value and and mother yourself. But and that's in so within the coaching, like really helping people tune into themselves, you know, what does that mean? What does that look like that like people to get to a point where they feel like the world is there in a supportive way, you know, that that messages are coming to us that, you know, we're being guided and and supported in so many ways if we open ourselves up to it. And, you know, that's kind of next level with it. But that's a lot of what I do on my retreats.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Are the people that that you see, do they I mean, I would imagine that so for some of these people, especially if they're coming in like, I'm a deer in headlights, I don't know why I feel this way. And I feel like for some reason I feel like you're the one who can explain it to me. And then you start unraveling all this stuff, and then they realize, you know, the patriarchy, their husband's been, you know, verbally abusing them. Like, are you able to because I've I imagine that probably causes some disruption in their lives? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Well, and I think that's why I always like the first thing I always do is can congratulate, like, cheer anyone on who decides to like, you know, come in and explore this, because I think the only thing that ever keeps us from doing it is that we know that it could disrupt things. We know that, you know, some I mean, sometimes we think like really worse, way worse cases than than it really is, but there will be some disruption. It will be, there'll be pain involved, it'll get met, there'll be mess, right? And we tend to be, you know, wired in our culture to avoid that, right? Like, well, there should be 10 easy steps, right? Like, this should, yeah, isn't there a pill for this? Like, can I there's gotta be a way around this, you know. I've been recently like writing about like the mountain of pain, right? Like, we all have our mountain of pain. And rather than like, ooh, what's the way around it, or can I like helicopter over it? Um, no, like the beautiful part the only way through is through, or what's the yeah, that something like that. Like the only way is through it, right? And climbing it, engaging with it, you know, digging into it, and you know, seeing that as a beautiful process, not something to to just like get through so I can like have that thing I want. But like it's the it of life, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Like it's there's something have you read that book, The Obstacle is the way? No, it sounds good though. It's a good one. It's a I mean, it's just about, you know, like like if you don't have the bad things, then you wouldn't be who you are. And you know, you the you know, it's it's I mean it's like the journey is the destination, you know, kind of stuff. But it's you know, I think we all need to be reminded of that because I think we spend so much time trying to avoid uncomfortable things. I know and and you know, and I I I'm just as bad as the next person. And I I hate that and I wish I I wish I was better at confrontation, but there's a part when it's like, I'm glad I'm not good at confrontation. I don't want to be like perpetually getting in fights with people. But I I actually just recently had to have a hard conversation with somebody and I agonized about it for I mean, if I'm being realistic, about a month, maybe a year. And it's like once I finally had the conversation, everything was better on both sides. And it's like why do we why are we so afraid of confrontation when almost every time you have it, there's goodness that comes out of it. I mean, I suppose it's like the message, like how how you're, you know, the medium is the message is whatever the medium is the message, is that what it is? Like how you say it is obviously if I bring a gun and I'm like behave, they're not gonna do it. But if you come at it with, you know, niceness and humility, it can be actually wonderful and I and you can have a weight lifted off of you and Absolutely. I know.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Why do we operate in our lead in Well there there are actually reasons, you know, like why that's so hard or the confrontation. I mean, that's evolutionarily wired in us to fear being kicked out of the group, to fear being, you know, abandoned. Um, you know, there's a part of our brain that's like wired that way, like get along, right? Like don't, you know, don't disrupt because you're out of the tribe and you're dead, right? So God, that's interesting. I have never thought about it that way. Still kind of lives in us, right? Like, well, that's where fear came from, more from the like run from the saber-toothed tiger, right? And um that and this one's more the then that next level of our brain that got developed is the relationship uh aspect. And when we started, you know, living in groups and tribes, it's like your security was being part of that. So we developed the emotion of hurt and and sadness to signal us when we were doing some stress.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yeah. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

I know. I I I I thought it was when I read that one too. It's like, oh, that makes sense. Don't you love it when you like see something like, oh it isn't this like, why do we do that? You know, why why are we well there's a reason and but it doesn't mean we can't then practice. Uh it's just harder. We just have to realize like it's gonna take more effort. And that, you know, it took a year, like it took a year because you really were like navigating, like, well, how do I and that's why, you know, if I were coaching someone in that, it's like, well, what are the worst case scenarios? Like how, you know, what if and practicing, you know, those kind of conversations so that we can feel like we're as present, we stay as present in the conversation as as we can.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Yeah. Um, we're almost at an hour. This is insane. I um scared it.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

We barely screwed up.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

No, I know. I feel like this is not the last time we're gonna talk. I hope not. So wait, what are you you said you've got something coming up in March?

SPEAKER_03 52:02

What's I do? Yes. If you don't mind, I'll just take a second. But I'll plug away. I love coaching, I love podcasts like you know, like you and speaking and all that stuff. And oh my god, writing, uh, that's a new endeavor. Um, talk about out of my comfort zone, right? It's it's like such a stretch. But I've been leading retreats, well, for a long time, but like really on my own for the last like couple years. So I lead a retreat in Mexico two times a year. The one coming up in March is the spring equinox self-mothering retreat. So as far as what we were talking about today, like this is giving ourselves like women have a really hard time giving themselves time just for them, right? That doesn't have something to do with their children or their job directly, right? Like I think, I think it still does, but it in a in a different kind of way, um, where we can practice some of those muscles of, you know, and here I'm in Mexico, so we're using nature, we're using, you know, the environment, we're using everything from the food to a sweat lodge to, you know, some beautiful things, ancient sites. There's an ancient pyramid nearby. But what is it like when we go to those and just open ourselves to ourselves and listening and the seasons, the equinox, and you know, how have other cultures used these these spaces and and this time for themselves so that you know we can really practice mothering ourselves, you know. But in in a small group of women, I keep it to around 10 women because that's how many fit around my dining room table. Um, and you know, I want it to feel like this intimate space. And so that's coming up March um 17th to the 22nd. So it's over the spring equinox, it's in Ziwatneo, Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Um the uh that's where uh the um in the Shashik Redemption.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Yeah, that's where you know is that reference, but uh that's where Andy Andy sends uh what's his butt to come meet him. That's where Andy ends up, you know, working on his boat. Like Pacific has no memory.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Um the Pacific side, right? Is that what you said? The Pacific side? So Chishinitsa, which is like another pyramid that's in yeah, in my uh in whatever yeah. On the equinoxes, it like had there's something crazy that happens with the.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Um on the pyramid. Yeah. Yeah. Not that it's so cool. Like that's a whole nother we made another podcast on like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Are you there right now?

SPEAKER_03 54:46

No, I'm in Chicago. I'm heading down to Mexico next week, actually, and I'll be there for most of the winter um and then leading up to the retreat. So cool. Yeah, so on my website you'll see a little tab that says retreats, and you can get, you know, information about it there. I know. Like it's it's something that you know for me, offering it is uh I just think it's uh always, you know, really courageous for women to decide to give themselves something like that. That's the kind of thing like men are like, yeah, I'll take a week, no big deal. Like women, it's like, wait, uh, you know, how does it be like a big thing?

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Well, that's because that's the thing. It's like a man can leave because what the woman's been organizing everything. So, like, you know, if John goes out of town, Sebastian's life doesn't really change at all. I go out of town and it requires a village to like, you know, who's picking up who wins this. I mean, it's not that John doesn't do these things, but I organize everything. So So it can get done. Yeah. So I do, I under the women find I I just feel like being like generous with your time and providing space for people to just talk. I mean, I feel like a lot of that has disappeared since the pandemic anyway. I feel like we've kind of forgotten how to socialize and you know, we've forgotten, like I I used to do stuff all the time, and I never do anything now. And I'm not I'm not mad about it, and I don't know what that means. Have I become an introvert? Is that okay if I have? Like I don't like, but whatever.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

Well, that's what you can ask. Like if you're feeling nourished, you know, and now you're in a different season or you're doing it differently, then I I don't I I don't think anything's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

I just wanna am I selling myself like am I not experiencing things because I I got so used to not doing anything that I'm not doing anything and like having new experiences. It's kind of like how, like, you know, like when a rock star becomes famous and they their life is so comfortable they don't have they have nothing to sing about anymore, you know? And so their songs just become about like either being on the road or I don't know. Like I don't like it's uh you don't want to get too comfortable that you don't have experiences that make your life interesting. Sure. Well, come to Mexico. That'll stir it up. I mean, I here's the thing. I'm like, I'm like, I would, however, I'm going to Panama in Jim in February, and I'm gonna be in Hawaii the last week. And I have this like bougie uh I'm going to a yoga retreat, which I've done three years in a row. Okay, well then you're you're dismissed.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

You're you're okay.

unknown 57:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

But maybe next year. Do you do these every year?

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Well, I I do the oh the one in the spring is five days, five and a half days. And then I do a week a long weekend in the fall equinox, also in Mexico. So I do it twice a year.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

So the fall one might be yeah, September, March. Anyway, well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time. I was still looking forward to it. Thanks for listening to All of the Millady Business with me, Mary Easty. Uh, we'd love for you to like, review, subscribe, follow us to All of the Millady Business on the RAM. And if you're a female identifying person and you want to dance, you can follow. I mean, everybody can follow us, but if you want to be a part of the magic bad hot watch dance party, find out where our next party's gonna be if you are looking fora or anywhere else. You know what I'm saying? Why is that? Twitchcammyps.com has the best. And listen to my radio show at a radio show on TripRadio at tripradio.org. That's Mondays. Every Monday we call the Twitter. Today's episode is produced by Shiraz Data. You guessed it, Shiraz Data. All right, guys, peace out.