Let’s Do Some Catastrophizing with Leah Weinberg

SPEAKER_00 0:14

My business is your business. It's all up in my lady business. With me. Very easy. Hi, everybody. Welcome to All Up in My Lady Business today. I am so psyched today because I have my lawyer on the horn with me today, Leah Weinberg, founder of Weinberg Legal. She is an attorney, recovering wedding planner, and the author of the Wedding Roller Coaster, which I'd love to discuss. After nearly a decade in the wedding industry, she has uh come back to her roots and she's now a lawyer that uh assists the wedding industry people like myself uh on the ins and outs and how to make sure that your business is watertight and uh you aren't making bad choices and bad decisions in the uh in the you know the the the vicitude of nightmares that this can this uh this industry can be. I mean, it's funny. It's like uh well welcome, Leah. Thank you so much for being on.

unknown 1:18

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Um, you know, I see like Taylor Swift has this, there's a there's like a like a meme that she, and maybe not a meme, it's like a little video where someone says, What's what's the best what's the best piece of advice you would give to a musician to a musician who's trying to come up in the music industry and just say, find a good lawyer. And uh I I would agree with that. I need to find that clip and put it all over my social media. I don't think people realize how much they need a lawyer and and and and how much lawyers have have been such a part of my my job since I started.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

They didn't have LegalZoom when I started, so I actually had to go to a lawyer to be to like incorporate me.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I think that's honestly really good practice. It's a good it sets a good precedent though for your business. Like you know to go to a lawyer and not go to Chat GPT and not frankly go to legal Zoom also for stuff. Like you have learned and understand and appreciate the value of a human lawyer who can help you protect your business.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Well, and it's it's interesting because I I have friends who are, you know, it'll come up that they're incorporated and they'll say they're an LLC and I'm an S-corp. Uh and I I don't really know the difference between them or what, but I just know that when I started it's a lawyer told me that I should be an S-corp. Uh and so that's what I am. And it's like I kind of worry when I hear that because I'm like, I don't know if that's right. I don't know, like I don't know what would be um, you know, what one is over the other one. Uh maybe you could speak to that. Like when people are going to incorporate and like when they're going to figure like once they've decided they're gonna start a business and they are doing it, like how I mean, obviously the best day to incorporate is the before you even start doing business, I would assume.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah. Yeah. Have some have some kind of entity. Some kind of entity is frankly better than no kind of entity. Also, I do like to point out because folks get this, it's just not clear. I don't want to say folks get it wrong because it's just frankly it's not clear and people don't know. Um, having a DBA for a business, like if you are operating as an individual, but you file a DBA, that DBA is not an entity. That DBA does not protect your personal assets. It's just think of it like a brand name or an alter almost like an alter ego of you as a person. So you need some kind of entity, whether it's an LLC, a corporation. There is a difference between it's a difference between a C Corp and an S-corp. So the S-corp is, I'm getting, we're going like really nerdy. We're going nerdy already. Let's just get in there. S Corp is actually a tax election. So you could be an LLC that is taxed as an S-corp. You could be a C Corp that is taxed as an S-corp. My law firm is a professional corporation, A PC, that is taxed as an S-corp. So depending on who, what business it is, what you're doing, do you have partners that will all inform the type of entity, whether it's LLC, corp, C Corp, partnership, that kind of thing. And then the decision to be taxed as an S-corp is very financial dependent. So that's a decision you make with your accountant. And they'll let you know when the time is right to elect S-corp status.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

So when you say a DBA doing business as, is that is that person usually doing that business under their social security number?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yes, I think so. You know, sometimes though, I think they try some people I think might be might file an EIN under a DBA, but it's all not, it doesn't really, it still doesn't protect your personal. Even if you have a separate EIN associated with a DBA, but you're still an individual, it's not protecting your personal assets.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Okay. Yeah, because the whole point of this is to protect your assets because like let's let's kind of do some catastrophizing. Like my favorite game. It is, I and I'm super good at it. I am I am incredible. I can see a problem that doesn't exist 85 miles away. Uh, and then it's like I'm almost like, you know, a little like turned on when it actually comes true, but it's usually bad. It's like, like, you know, it's like my kink is is knowing uh how I could be completely destroyed um business wise. Um so like let's say, like, like let's say you have a job, you're like a regular person, and then you have like an Etsy store on the side where you knit things and you knit hats for chickens and they become huge. Everyone loves hats for chickens. Uh and I just got that idea of because have you read Yester Year yet? Or have it on your is it on your radar? No. It's like this, it's a good book, but I I just finished it and there's a thing about chickens with hats. Anyway, um, so I've I I knit chicken with hats, hats for chickens, and all of a sudden they're huge, and I'm selling, you know, I'm making a thousand dollars a month selling hats for chickens. How could this backfire on me?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

My initial thought is if you're like, let's say you're using yarn, let's say somebody has a really bad allergic reaction to the hat that you knit, and they decide to sue you for their medical expenses. Could that happen? I guess that could happen. Anything could happen. This is the problem with America. Yeah. Anything can happen. Basically, anybody can threaten anybody. Most people can probably sue anybody, and people like to sue anybody and everybody over things. So, like, some of this is not far-fetched. But yeah, I like what's the worst that could happen? That's that's one of the things that I think of somebody has an allergic reaction.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

You say the l the yarn is 100% wool, but it's actually a uh has a blend in it, and the person, so I mean, that's or maybe you don't disclose maybe you don't disclose it.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

And you know, the thing is the question always comes down to like if I think I heard a statistic backing up. I think I heard a statistic once that maybe five percent of all litigation that's ever actually filed ultimately goes to like a court and is decided in front of a jury or a judge. So 5%. So like 95% of the time you're settling, but that doesn't mean that it's not costing you a lot of money in getting up to that settlement. It doesn't mean you're gonna have a favorable outcome in the settlement. Like there's a lot of time, but I think so. It's like people can always threaten to sue, knowing that, yeah, at the end of the day, we're probably not ever gonna really get in front of like a decision maker about this. We'll most likely settle before that happens, but they can still waste your time and money with just stress.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

I've had a lot of nasty grams sent my way uh in my day where they're, you know, it's like either they're a lawyer and they're sending me a letter like on their letterhead that makes it look like they're using their company as a way to get back at their wedding DJ. And it's like, I don't think this is gonna fly if this actually became anything. Um, but I will say that in, you know, it's it's funny, like, you know, knock on wood, like we have never had anybody file a claim against us for anything at this point. And I, there's a part of me that kind of feels like if it was gonna happen, it probably would have happened by now. Um, like the thing, and I didn't want to even like put this into the universe, but I'm always afraid, like the thing that I've always been afraid of is like the wedding just kind of sucked, you know, like and you know, and and you know, it's like not really our fault, but they sue us anyway, where they're like, You promised us a rager and this wedding sucked. And it's like, well, your family's terrible. I don't know how to, you know, like I can't fix your shitty friends. Like I I am sorry. And I'm in that sense, we go into every wedding thinking we're gonna, you know, sway, you know, slay the day. But yeah, you know, sometimes they don't. And I feel like, you know, I don't know, I that's not happened. And so that's the thing that I feel like because that's my biggest fear and it hasn't happened. Cause I don't know how you I don't know how you would defend yourself, you know, in those, in those moments.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, there is a there's a contract provision that I put in that says that DJ services are a subjective service, and you will your DJ will use their professional judgment to figure out what songs to play and like outside of you know, the the processional, recessional first dance, parent dance, whatever. Like outside of that, I'm where I the DJ am not promising I'm gonna play anything because I have to make decisions in the moment. Um, so that can be something that's helpful and just bolsters your argument if that ever did happen. Um, I remember I had one wedding. It was so weird. It was like my favorite DJ here in New York, and people just didn't want to dance. Like they were all just standing on the dance floor talking all night long. And he was like looking at me, he's like, Leah, what am I supposed to do? Like, I'm trying, and there's and I was just like, I just don't think they want to dance. But they didn't tell us that. Like, we had no idea going in that this was well, and you don't know that as a client.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Like you think you're gonna have a dance floor, and then you get all these people together who haven't seen each other in a million years. It's like, oh, cool, you've got a family that actually likes each other. You have a family that actually wants to communicate with each other and talk and not just get wasted and bounce around to Rihanna. I mean, bouncing around to Rihanna is I need them to do that. That's I need that to maintain. But but when that happens, because I've had a couple of weddings like that where like just everyone's just talking, I'm like, I'm just gonna play vibe music. Yeah. And it turns into a different thing, you know, altogether. Um, but yeah, the fear around that does suck. And so, but then it also leads to then having to get insurance to cover up all of the things I'm afraid that are going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah. Insurance is uh an excellent thing to have in your arsenal. Understanding your insurance is important. Having a real human on the other end of your at the other end of your insurance company who you can talk to and ask questions of is incredibly important because sometimes it's simply a matter of like you do, you get one of those scary letters and you're not sure how it's gonna turn out. And so the first move can be to also like call your first call, first call is to your attorney, second call can be to your insurance company. And you, it's called putting them on notice of this potential thing happening, and they can kind of also help make you feel better by saying, Oh, this however this turns out, you're completely covered, you know. So that's also a really important thing to have to back you up.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

But if you are completely covered, will you still have to pay out anything? Will I have to pay like you? Will I have to pay the insurance company something? Like it winds up because that's the thing I was afraid of is like the suing everybody a part of the who's a part of the wedding, you know, because they're just trying to see who they can get some money from. Like there's a slip and fall in the bathroom and they sue everybody associated with the wedding. Are they gonna try to go after me for like, you know, making them their feet uh get, you know, uh limp because they danced too hard and then they had drop foot in the bathroom and they stepped in some water. Like, you know, it's like this is the stuff where my brain can really go.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

This is where your favorite contract provision, the indemnity provision comes in. But I'm gonna answer part, I'm gonna answer part one for a second, like thinking about the insurance company. So let's talk about if it was actually your fault. Let's say, because I've heard this happening, guest trips over a cord that one of your DJs placed. Yes. It and what your insurance covers depends on the insurance. Like it's like your health insurance too. Is there a deductible? Um, sometimes it can cover attorneys' fees, though. So, like if you have an attorney involved in defending something, you know, your insurance might also cover attorney's fees. Sometimes I think your insurance company can also provide a lawyer to get involved and sort of take things over as well. So that all depends on the specifics of your insurance company. But the I love the example you provided of this had nothing to do with me. And yet I still find myself wrapped up in a lawsuit or the threat of litigation. And that's where your indemnity provision comes in. So the simplest way that I explain indemnity means that if you do find yourself wrapped up in a lawsuit related to the event that had nothing to do with you, your clients are going to be responsible for covering your legal costs in defending that action. That's why an indemnity is super important. And from a practical perspective, I've just started talking about this more too, but think about your clients have the relationships with everybody at the wedding. So if it's like Aunt Sally who is doing something and suing everybody, your couple has the relationship with Aunt Sally and could presumably go to Aunt Sally and be like, hey, Aunt Sally, stop being difficult here. Like, please don't sue all of our wedding vendors because it's costing us money. Like that's absolutely a conversation that can happen. And they only would pay if we're not responsible. It depends. If it's just like neg, if it's negligence, they should potentially still cover it. It depends on how you're how it's worded, how specifically the indemnity is worded to you.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Because the way I see it, like with our with you know, with us, like we have no control over who's gonna be there. So I don't know if they're gonna have a professional caterer or a professional this, that, or the other thing. And so, you know, if they if they have, you know, some flybanet caterer that, you know, is using janky fryers or something and it shorts out the electricity, which then explodes my speaker, you know, but then was my speaker not grounded correctly? Is it the electric in the building? Is I mean, it's you start kind of going into this place of that. And I, and just the amount of like, you know, like if somebody trips over a cable, because that's always my biggest fear. Like I'm a gaff taping, yeah. Like that's my I'm like obsessive about gaff taping. And, you know, if I I feel like if somebody is tripping over a cable, they're in some place they shouldn't be. That's my that's all, and so it's like if the cables are always within like the box of my of my table, like you shouldn't be back there is sort of my my my two cents on that. Um, but I will say the anemone clause is always the thing people want to change.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

I know. But you have to, it's so important, and this is what I've been like educating my clients on. Once you explain why it is the way that it is, a they will they will understand. Like I've been, I've had to negotiate these provisions against other lawyers and they initially push back and they were like, this is way too broad. And then when I actually explain to them why it is the way that it is, they give me the language that I want because it makes sense. So so much of it is about actually understanding the indemnity provision and knowing how to defend it to your clients.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

But part of the problem is that it's like we're just, I mean, almost I would say with very few exceptions, there's no like national conglomerates of wedding industry. Like everybody almost every there, with the exception of like caterers who might be part of a bigger, almost every single vendor there is like an independent small business artist person that, you know, somehow managed to make the thing, you know, the the artistic thing they love into a job, you know, like we're not all business gurus. And so it's like when when these people come back and they push back on these things, they want to remove these clauses. There's some people who are like, I can't push back on this because I need this gig because if I don't book this wedding, I'm not gonna work this weekend. And so they kind of do the and they decide to just strike it. And when that one person does it, then that client can then expect that every other vendor is also willing to strike that.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

We don't none of us have, you know, I mean, I don't have you necessarily on retainer. You know, I'm I bring you in when things get bad, you know. But I'm not gonna like, hey, you lean, I'm gonna pay you to tell me a thing I'm already gonna say no to. Like I'm I'm never going to agree to my contract. And that's that's the thing, is that my contract has always been pretty solid.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Um, and so, you know, it's like I know like I'm not changing anything. Like my best friend was a corporate litigator for a long time. So she really gave me a lot of the language to use and kind of told me how to talk about these things in a way that made me feel confident that, you know, if anybody were to push back, I'm like, look, I'm not changing anything in here. Like this one, a small business and woman-owned, this is all I got. I'm not gonna like, you know, like jeopardize my business over, you know, $1,700 to, you know, have you hulip packard? And it's always these giant corporate, like when we're doing like big corporate. It's like they're the ones who are always trying to be like, you know, here's a red-lined version of your contract. I'm like, cool, here's a clean one. Sign that. I'm not like I'm not, like, I'm not, I'm not even gonna look at this. Like, I don't have a legal team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah. I mean, but a lot of the that is the way that I work with a lot of my clients. Like they get comments back and they don't know how to deal with them and they just send me a quick email and like I respond back. And it's, you know, I'm not billing people generally like for huge markups, yes. But like for a question or two, you know, I tell people I might tell my clients I would rather have you get it right and like come back to me on it than like to be worrying that I'm gonna be billing you for a five-minute email. Like, that's I wanna, I wanna get it right. I want to protect your business. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

That's interesting. I've never heard a lawyer be like that. Well, that's not true. I mean, I've I've always had I've had lawyers that have always been nice, but they usually come out swinging with a like, and I think it's probably just to keep people from like abusing it.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Um but you know I mean, I come from hosp I come from like the wedding planning world and hospitality. So it is in my heart that I want my clients to feel taken care of. So sometimes is that absolutely to the detriment of my wallet? Yes, absolutely. Um, but at the end of the day, it always evens out. I know it it evens out. At the end of the day, I'm very happy with like the work that I do and the business that I'm building and when I so that I can help people in this way. It I truly believe in that.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Okay, so let's let's go back into a time machine. So, how did you wind up at uh like in legal and then also wedding?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah. So I started adult life as a commercial real estate attorney and hated it from very early on and always was just kind of thinking, like, I think I need to own my own business. And that was something that for years was just sort of in the back of my head. And I always was trying to figure out, okay, well, what's it gonna be? What am I gonna do? And I thought about opening up a doggy daycare or doing a dog walking service. I like to say I came dangerously close to enrolling in pastry school because I thought I wanted to open a bakery. Um, fortunately, I have a friend who's a chef who stopped me from that because that was just not gonna be it. And then honestly, one day, like event planning just kind of popped into my head and I was like, oh, this feels like a really good fit for the things that I'm good at. And, you know, it had nothing, frankly, had nothing to do really with like weddings themselves. And um, I sat on it for a little bit. And then eventually after I I hate saying this, but like after I planned my own wedding, I decided to start a business. Um, I took it far more there's varying degrees of like how you can get inspired by that. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

So I mean you seem to yeah, and I there in you in you know, Leah's saying that to anybody here who's not listening, who's not from the wedding industry that's listening to this, like it is kind of a joke that people have so much fun planning their own weddings that they they become planners and those people don't last three years. Right. But I lasted 10 for the record and was very good at my job. That's the thing. It's like I mean it's kind of like when I realized that I could be a wedding DJ. It's like, wait a minute, I've been, I I'm organized and I'm, you know, like I know a lot about music and I'm I like bossing people around. Like, you know, and all kind of it was like the clicking of a bunch of things, which it seems like that was also for you.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah. And if you think about the, it's very interesting because it's not obvious on the surface, but being a lawyer and being a wedding planner have so many overlapping skills. It's dealing with like 40 deals at one time and having to know, like at any given second, where are we in this process? It's dealing, it's troubleshooting. Like, what's the worst that could happen and preparing for that? It's dealing with difficult people, it's staying very calm under pressure, it's being really good at problem solving. So when something does go wrong, you don't go run and cry in the bathroom, you just get it done. Um, and dealing with different personalities and how to like think on your feet, just so really so many overlapping skills. And so I eventually started my planning business while still working full-time as a lawyer, eventually kind of weaned, weaned myself off of lawyering and was full-time planning. And then as the story goes, COVID happens, changed the whole landscape of everything. And my last wedding was at the end of 2022, and I launched um a law firm at the beginning of 2023.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

And do you focus exclusively on the event industry or do you take people? Do you take muggles?

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Do you I take muggles? Yes. Love the muggles. Um, yeah, so any sm any small business owner, I work with people who do a lot. Of different stuff. Obviously, the bulk of my clients are wedding and event pros just because that's my where my network is and the people that I know and all of that stuff. A lot of my work just comes from referrals and speaking. And so that's the world that I live in predominantly. But yeah, I work with a lot of different small business owners, coaches, bookkeepers, interior designers, professional organizers is an interesting one. I did, I did a webinar for a group here in New York and then like booked a bunch of clients from it. So now I understand the professional organizing world more than I ever thought I would.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Wow. I mean, I have ordered I have hired a professional organizer. John got me one for Mother's Day, like many pre-COVID. This is a long time ago. Yeah. And I was like, there's a person that will just come into your house. I was like, there's too much shit in this house. We had a baby. It was like, you know, and so he hired it. I mean, I have her number. Like, we're like, I mean, she's come over seven. She helped me unpack my house when I moved. Like, yeah. It's amazing how you don't know how bad you are at doing certain things until you hire a professional to do them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Who know how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Um, what is a what is a foible of the professional organizing community? Like, what's a thing that like, you know, you gotta kind of deal with? Like, what's the catastrophizing around that? Breaking things.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Well, the thing, the worst, one of the worst things that I like, one of my like catastrophizing things is what happens if you throw something away? You're you're given permission to throw something away, but the person changes their mind. Or you've disposed of something and then their like sibling wanted it and didn't say anything, and then their sibling tries to come after you, even though you know you were just doing your job. So again, that's where that indemnity comes in. Because if the sibling decides to sue you for throwing away, you know, dad's I don't know, antique motorcycle, I don't know, silly example. But like again, want to make sure you're protected from that.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

What would you say? I'm just changing directions here, like going back to like in your experience so far. So you've been doing specifically this for the last what, four years? Three years or so, three years? Um, like have there been any like cautionary tal like like cautionary tales around not having like working with non-insured vendors or not like or contracts or like clients with weak contracts. Like have you had like a situation where someone's hired an uncle for to DJ their wedding and something bad happened or whatever where I haven't had no, not with like hobbyist, like frienders.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

I haven't heard any friender, friender drama. Sorry, I don't have a better story for you there.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

I really wanted you to say actually it's the worst. And whenever anybody hires people that aren't actually in the industry, it actually threw it, it I mean, it does mess thing up.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

I mean, for not from so from a legal perspective, I don't have specific examples. I can give you plenty of examples all day long from a practical perspective because I remember a wedding that I was planning and they decided to DIY their flowers, but it meant that the parents, both sets of parents of the bride and groom were like doing organizing the flowers on the wedding day and like everybody's setting up, and I'm watching all of them just yell at each other because they don't want to be doing it. They are frustrated because they don't know what they're doing. And yeah, it just sort of like put a nasty damp. Yeah, for your friend, your friends and family don't want to actually help you on the your wedding day.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

I think they only here's the thing, I like I feel like they would want to help you and they will help you if the whole wedding is DIY. Like, I mean if they see everybody pitching in and everybody's doing, you know, uh, you know, a kind of DIY part. But I think if you're at like a like a venue where there's a bunch of professionals that are doing everything and they all know what they're doing and you know, there's and they're not yelling at each other, and then you're like in your, you know, your mother of the bride dress and you're trying to, you know, make sure that the colors are all balanced or whatever in the centerpieces. And it's like, there's a reason why people hire other people to do this. Yes. You know, like you, you don't have to have a wedding. You don't have to do this. Everything we're doing is a luxury. Yeah. I I don't live in any world where I think I'm carrying cancer. Like I know the role that I fill, but I fill that role very well. And, you know, so there's a lot of things you do not have to worry about, or or you don't even know you had to worry about them because I'm already solving solving that problem for you before you even walked in the door.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah, that's where I think, I mean, going completely in a different direction, but like that's where folks don't appreciate their wedding vendors. Like, so you, so many people that get married will never know all of the stuff that went wrong on their wedding day. And sometimes it's really bad stuff. I had a wedding where the entire kitchen staff quit, walked off property because the head chef was such a jerk. They all left and the couple never had any idea. We had like the servers were helping like prep food. It was, you know, we we made it work and they never knew. Wow. But yeah, stuff can go really badly wrong. And they never have a clue.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah, I've had weddings where we've they run out of food. Yeah. And uh, and like they're ordering pizzas and like trying to get food just to get to the clients. And it's like, you know, that's and I I promise you that didn't happen because the clo the caterer uh it probably I I can if I was going to assign blame to that situation, it was like the client's like, okay, can we just get rid of one of the servers? Or can we just you know, like I feel like it's always trying to whittle it down to the bare bones of the service, and you know, that is always a problem as well because you aren't getting what that person does. You're getting a shadow of it, and it won't, it won't work out the way that they think it's going to. Um, but yeah, so this industry uh is hell sometimes. Um, so um, so now that you are you're like lawyering in this place, do you miss the grind? Do you miss No, no?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

And I see how I mean one of the biggest reasons what sped up my exit from weddings was how people were acting as we were coming out of COVID. Like I know a lot of us had hopes and dreams that people would be more kind and compassionate and understanding. Cause for those of us in big cities like Chicago and New York, we didn't leave our apartments for a year. We thought we were gonna die, like we thought we were could die if we went outside. Like that is a trauma. And so we thought, okay, maybe people are gonna be nice and understanding and kind to each other, and absolutely not. And stuff was so hard for the wedding industry coming out of COVID that those clients that had no grace for the vendor who was slammed because they were understaffed, or you know, the florist who couldn't get these things because like there was no, like there was just no compassion. Yeah. And that I care so deep, like just as I care so deeply for my current clients, you can imagine that I invested very emotionally in my clients who were getting married. And so for that to be met with just whatever, like I just could. I was like, no, because I can't not care. So I had to just kind of like pull myself out of the situation in order to deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah, that's actually why I know you in many ways, is because like in COVID, like I kind of operated as an island. I didn't know any, I didn't, there was no a na I did I wasn't like I didn't know any national DJs. I didn't, I didn't go to conferences, I didn't, you know, I I just was just this is my world and I know what I'm doing and blah, blah, blah. And um, I had gone to maybe a couple Whippa events, but I didn't, you know, I wasn't a member. And during the like when everything shut down and then when in in Chicago we reopened at the beginning of July, quote unquote. Like we would like part of the whatever was lifted so we can now have events and they had to be a max of 50 people. Everyone had to wear masks. There was no allow to be dancing. You could not dance. It was like footloose. And uh, and so we would have people that would be like, good news, we moved our wedding to the border of Wisconsin and Illinois so we can have 175 people so we can have the wedding. And I'm like, and I'm and it was like, I'm not going there. I'm not sending one of my DJs to a to the Batan death march to the you know, to Kenosha, Wisconsin, so that they can have their completely irresponsible wedding. And this was happening all over the place where, you know, they would, or they would like have 80 people and they're supposed to have 50, or they're gonna have, and I'm like, who why are you guys agreeing to this? Like I realize that we are all broke, but we yeah but but we got PPP money. We, you know, if you are a real vendor, you should have been able to get PPP money and be able to like, you know, do the things that they gave us to be able to avoid these sort of situations. And it put us in a bad situation because we're like, you know, we're I can't send a DJ to a place where you're knowingly breaking the rules because we there was a lot of like news where they would like bust up weddings. They there was a specifically they busted up like a 400-person wedding in the North Shore here in Chicago. And I'm like, when I saw that, I'm like, that could I never I cannot be the irresponsible DJ that did a wedding that gets on the news. Like that was that could ruin me. And I need to be here after the camp pandemic's over. And so I started, I joined everything. I joined Whippa, I joined NACE, I joined um ILEA, I joined any anything that had even a tenuous relationship to the event industry. Because I, and I'm like trying to get on the boards, I'm like trying to do anything because I'm just like, you guys, we need to have a code of conduct. We can't, we can't, we have to have like a thing that is the baseline to be even be in this industry. Yeah, because I I am trying to run a real business here, and you hobbyists and you know, like whatever's are, you know, you're ruining it for the rest of us. Uh and so that's when I started going to conferences because I knew that I found out those existed. Yeah. And I started going to conferences, and you know, that's how I met you through the, through the the the conference uh, you know, jet set. The circuit. The circuit. Um, but it was it was very much tied to trying to make some kind of baseline of of what they can expect and what they have to do. It also brings me to my con I really want to unionize the event industry.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Have you heard anybody talk about that? No. Is that anything anybody's ever mentioned? Am I the first person?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Unionize, no, but I hear a lot of talk of like wishing that there was some kind of regulation.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Well, I did my part. I went to, I mean, uh the part of the problem that we don't have regulation is that we don't have accurate Nakes codes. This is my like, this is my uh my bet noir, the thing I am always talking about is uh the Nix code. There, like for the like so for those of you who are not aware what a Naikes code is, um, it's the North American industry classification system, I think is what it stands for. And every industry has its own number that is, you know, and it tells you, like, oh, if you're gonna call yourself, you know, a carpenter, you have to have this insurance and you have to, you know, you and it this is you'll you'll probably be a 1099 and they tell you how to do everything. And like the event industry doesn't have a lot of specific codes. And like I I require I file my taxes as independent DJ artist, but it's a company that has 30 employees and you know, it's like it it doesn't, and there's nothing for photo booth, there's very little for lighting, but the lighting stuff is for the stage theaters, and that's not what we're doing. And so because there's not like that, it's hard to get regulation because they don't even see us as a real job. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

And that also, to kind of bring it back, is reflected in legal stuff. Like I always tell clients, you know, if there's a dispute and they're trying to figure out do I settle, do I like risk it, do we call their bluff? I'm like, you run the risk of getting uh an arbitrator or you get the risk of a judge who doesn't understand the wedding industry. I've heard a story of it was a judge, a florist was taken to court by a client. It was semi-related to COVID, like there was a last-minute cancellation. To be fair, there was really no contract, and so it was not well documented. So they ended up in front of a judge and a judge said out loud, who would pay $20,000 for flowers? So like they don't get it. And you don't want to risk, like, you just don't want to risk being in that situation, whether it's a judge or even an arbitration of somebody who doesn't get what you do deciding the outcome of like how much money you owe somebody.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

They're so outraged that you wasted $20,000 on it that they're like, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

That's why I've said, like, could you imagine if a photographer who charges 10K was in a court, a judge would like be like, they'd look at the photos and they'd be like, that's not $10,000 worth of photos. Like, you could you don't want to risk that.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

I mean, what happens if what happens if that happens though? I mean, wouldn't there be like prejudice or whatever? And like the get a new judge or something?

SPEAKER_01 34:56

I don't even know. I mean, I don't even, yeah, I don't even know. Like with court stuff, there you can always appeal. Arbitration, you can't, which is why when we get into discussions of like mediation versus arbitration, I tend to recommend the mediation because arbitration is binding, you can't appeal it, and you similarly run that risk of being in front of somebody who doesn't understand what you do.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

I mean, that kind of brings us back to the contract of it all and like having like bad contracts versus good contracts. And like one of the issues, dear listeners, that Leah and I have been dealing with is that there is a scourge of venues that are um I love it. It is a scourge, it is a plague of locusts upon my business, uh, where a lot of venues are making or trying to get the like the individual vendors to sign agreements with the venue that we're gonna behave and that we have to have certain insurance. And they also want us to then indemnify them, which we talked about at length in this podcast. And, you know, it's and we had one. It was we had this one venue that I don't have a great relationship with. I don't know if she'll be saying this out loud, but whatever, fuck it. Uh you can edit it out if you have second thoughts. Um, and I'm not gonna say who it is, but anyway, this venue, they they sent us this agreement claiming that they've had them like forever. And we've worked, we I've never signed one. Like it's not anything we've ever done. And then we like I showed it to Leah and she saw like immediately that like the whole comp the whole conference or the contract was about they said like client or you know, vendor, vendor, vendor, but then in the indemnity part it said client. And so it was like the client who's not been named in this document anywhere. So clearly they were using Chat GPT uh at a at you know, at the at the at the least offense if they were using cut and paste.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Um and it so they we actually sent it back to them and they wound up changing it. I mean, they wound up, you know, pretty much doing and it also had like indemnity that was like it would make it so it completely undermined the contract that we have with the client. I mean, it was so it's and I feel like there's this like playing lawyer with Chat GPT and a lot of these vendors are like, what? Fuck it, I'll sign this thing. I don't care. And then and then if something goes wrong, you are royally screwed, is the problem. So if you get into this like circle jerk of indemnity, what happens?

SPEAKER_01 37:10

What prevails? It's hard. I mean, so theoretically, if you're if you have a good contract with your client who indemnifies you and you are forced to sign an agreement where you're indemnifying the venue, if you end up paying the venue, theoretically your client's gonna probably reimburse you, assuming it had something that wasn't related to you. But also what should be happening is the venue should be able to go after the client and not you as the vendor. And it's just so, I mean, if there are any, I will I always put this out here. If there are any venues listening, I would like to get more in touch with the venue community to talk about these agreements because I don't think they make sense. I think that you can get the protection you need from the contracts with the event host, requiring insurance, always fine with reasonable limits. Like you want to make sure somebody's insured. And so if they damage your property, you know it's gonna, there's money for it to be fixed. Like that's we're not arguing about that. It's these like full releases, the indemnities, the hold harmless, those kind of things. I just don't think it's that, I don't think it's that appropriate.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

I don't either. We don't work for them. Like I don't have a financial relationship with them. I have in it, and it's like, and you're also making it so I don't want to work there.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

And so, you know, it's like, and you know, with us, you know, like we get enough work that if a venue kind of crosses us, we can just just not do, we can just not take leads from there. I mean, like the like I can say with impunity that we've stopped taking Trump Tower uh leads in 2015, I think was when we stopped doing that. Um, so I can say that I feel comfortable saying that on a microphone that I will not work at Trump Tower. But uh, you know, it does it does suck when they've got these venues where they're they're making these sort of decisions that are um hurting the people around them. And I get it, the reason why and and then it winds up, it winds up making a situation where I wind up having to pay the price for shitty vendors that, you know, like they like, you know, they got drunk on the job or they, you know, they it was too loud and they refused to turn it down. That's always one they're always bringing up. They're like, I don't know, you're gonna turn your music down. I'm like, yeah. Like who wouldn't turn their music down? Like, I, you know, and it's like some people won't. And I'm like, cool ego guy. I'm glad that's the tree, that's the hill you want to die on, is you know, whether or not this that, you know, your Bruno Mars song is at a hundred decibels consistently throughout the night. Like um, and and also we've had a situation where people are like, they're trying to demand us to have insurance levels that are just Oh, that's getting, yeah, some of that's getting out of hand. Tell me about that. How's that getting out of hand?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Uh the insurance requirements are just getting higher and higher. Um, and it's also not what it what they don't take into account is like what it is that you actually do. Like, what are you doing if it is just if you're just bringing a photo booth in or if you're just bringing up lighting in? Like the level of risk there is so tiny. So to like require somebody to have like 10 million in umbrella coverage is absolutely outrageous.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Um, so you had a person, we had a venue a couple weeks ago that was they they wanted us to have like one of the things was like $500,000 of something. I don't remember what it was. Well, I think it was cyber, I think that one was cybersecurity, wasn't it? Yes, it was. It was yeah, they wanted to have five, five hundred thousand dollars in cybersecurity and we had 375. Our limit was 375. And I'm like, if I'm charging, if I'm making, if I'm causing any damage that gets into the tens of thousands of like there's the difference between 375 and 500 is negligible. I don't know how I could possibly commit $500,000 worth of pretty of anything. Right. Like I don't know how I could cause, unless my unless you light the building on fire. Exactly. Yeah. And they and they were they were mean about it. They were like, you know, and then we have we have a I we have a venue, a wedding later on this year where we promise we get an umbrella. I'm like, sure, fine, we'll get an umbrella. It is so expensive to get an umbrella, like so expensive. Like, and so what it winds up doing to me, and I think is that when we have these contracts and we, you know, we we, you know, we realize we need insurance. So we get liability insurance. And then, you know, I, you know, I wind up, I have employees and, you know, people can be litigious. So then I had to get EPLI insurance that'll cover me in case, and you know, I try to get this an umbrella, which I don't understand what it is. I don't have one of those, but it's I've got, you know, I have to have a policy for my insurance. I have a an inland something, inland marine or I don't even don't even know what that is. Like, oh, I recently learned about that.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

So there's actually, so when you are a vendor that has physical property, so whether it's like a DJ that's got equipment or a photographer who's got their cameras, et cetera, you know, bands that have um instruments, those that kind of thing. There's two types of insurance. So one type covers you when your equipment is in storage. So, like if your warehouse, there was a flood and the stuff got damaged. That's actually one type of insurance versus if you are on site at an event and you're and your equipment gets damaged there. Isn't that fascinating? I had no idea. So that inland marine is one of the two, is one or the other. It's yeah, it's like, yeah, it's so wow. It's not one type that covers everything. I know whatever.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

But that's just but that really screws you over because you know, it's like, so then here's the thing. It's like, okay, somebody sues me because of this. Okay, I didn't have the right insurance for that. So now I've got a new policy that I'm taking out that's gonna cost me, say, $5,000 a year that I now have to pay for that on top of the $10,000 I pay for liability, on top of the $4,000 I pay for EPLI, on top of the, you know, so like, I mean, I'm probably spending probably thirty and my workers' comp insurance, whoo, tens of thousands of dollars that just was flushed down the toilet of my profitability gone for policies that I'm probably most likely never going to collect on. Yeah. And so then when they're like, okay, because I already, I my insurance used to be 1 million, and then I popped it up to 2 million because I was like sick of people kind of making noises about it. So it's been it's been at 2 million for quite some time. But, you know, it's like when we had one the couple weeks ago, they wanted five million. And I'm like, that's gonna increase my premium by so much that I'm like if that, you know, the the, you know, I think in the on the umbrellas alone were also like eight to ten thousand dollars for to get that. And it's like though that's just not worth it to me to spend that money, you know, to do that. But then if I do let's say I make the decision, let's say I get my back up against a wall and I have to get an umbrella, then I have to raise my prices.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

You know, and then I have and then I'm praising my prices, and the DJs are like, why aren't you giving us some of that? And it's like, I would like To I would much rather be giving all of this money to you. And when you guys were independent contractors, I did. I paid so well when they were independent contractors. But when you make them employees, the amount of money that just disappears out of my life that you know, and it it's like it is insane the amount of expenses that I have, like software alone, just software last year's but twenty thousand dollars. Twenty thousand dollars like in just software gone. And that's all the software that we need in order to manage everybody that I've never needed before. Right. But now I you have to have an insurance, you have to have policy or software for everything. You can't just like run your business on paper and a pen. I I liked it back then. I liked the paper and the pen. So what kind of clients are you looking for? Are you are you are you looking for new clients? Are you trying to make it happen?

SPEAKER_01 44:47

I'm always looking for new clients. Any any where can you work? Um so my firm serves folks in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Virginia, and Maryland, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, Texas, and California. And then for any for trademark or copyright stuff, that's federal. So I'm able to help anybody located anywhere, like if they want to file a trademark application for something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

I actually I didn't know that. Um, I just filed my trademark with for hot flash dance. I didn't know you did that.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Um amazing. Yeah. That I hi that I filed a trademark for hot flash dance or I didn't know you did it. No, that you filed for hot for hot flash. Why why do you think that's funny? Tell me why.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

We've talked about it before. Women of our age going through the perimetopause journey. So that's amazing. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yeah, I well, and what's funny is he's like, there's there's four other things that have hot flash in the name that he's like, we might have problems with these. And I'm like, none of these are dance parties. Like some of them are like exercise classes and things. Yeah, but I'm like, I'm I think I'm gonna win it. I want to, I want, I need a trademark. It's too good. It is, that's super good. Yeah. And what kind of businesses would be like your dream businesses outside of the wedding industry to do?

SPEAKER_01 46:03

I do where I like I said, I work with a lot of interior designers, coaches, accountants, bookkeepers. Um, it was interesting. I had a client who's a coach, but who's also a former lawyer, and that was the first time I've prepared an agreement for somebody who was a former lawyer. And like our call, it was interesting because like our call to review the contract from top to bottom. Most of the time, I'm like explaining everything and I didn't have to explain anything, which was a very weird experience. Um, but yeah, they were they were previously a um a fam did family law. So like they didn't know about sort of drafting like like coaching contracts and client service agreements and stuff like that. Um, so that was interesting. Um, but yeah, I I'm open to working with a variety of people. I definitely learn, you know, there's some professions that I kind of understand how they function better than others. Now that I've worked with multiple professional organizers, I have a very deep insight into that world and what their pain points are. So that's usually how I like to tell folks like you want somebody that kind of understands your business already and you're not having to explain to them exactly what they do, which is why working with a wedding and event pros is always so helpful because I obviously understand those businesses inside and out.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Well, and I've used my contract as a cudgel like over the years, where anytime anything happens that like up that like takes up a ton of my time, like if I've got someone who tries to sue me or your former employee that is trying to come after me for something that like I would like to first also say in every single situation where I've ever had anybody try to sue me or any try to do anything legal with I've always won. Again, knocking on wood, but I always prevail because I feel confident in the way that I do things and and that's so important.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah. When you do it, when you do it correctly and right, and you have like the strong foundations in place and a strong contract that goes such a long way whenever there's an issue.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

I think that that's also part of the reason why I was able to survive COVID because you know, my contract was ironclad, and so all these people are like giving me my money back. And I'm like, if I could, I would, but my contract says I don't have to, so I'm not going to. And then that's where I got the there were so many bad reviews of me on the internet that called me a sheep and I was a sheep in wolf's clothing. And I am a, you know, a heartless bitch because I couldn't give back their deposit. And it's like, if the government had given a shit about the event industry and gave me money that I could have used towards that, I would have killed. I would have loved to have done that.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

And also, all those people could have bought insurance slow go. Hello, but they have in 2019. Every couple that I booked, I always gave them my same spiel, which is your venue might require that you have general liability insurance. And also separately from that, you can get event cancellation insurance, which protects your entire investment in your wedding. And I only had one couple take me up on it. And when they ended up canceling their wedding in 2020, they got every penny back in like three weeks. And I think it's only like $300. It is not that expensive. It's proportionate to how much your wedding budget is, but like you could have a prop, well, old prices, so don't quote me on this, but like you could have like a $150k wedding and maybe spend $700 to protect that whole investment if I was a blizzard, a hurricane, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah. I when I got married in 2011, I think my insurance was $170. I was not having a $100,000 wedding or whatever in in 2011. But I do think that, you know, but again, it's like the insurance agents. Oh, I will say we had two people who had had event insurance who had who had event insurance that canceled and we did wind up getting all of our money, which was really they were like, We got insurance, we'll make the rain on you because they knew how awful our lives were at that point. Yeah. But it it really sucked. Is there anything else you want to plug? How do people find you?

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah, my website is Weinbergle.com. I am at the Leah Weinberg and at Weinberg Legal on Instagram. There's a spot on my website for folks to sign up for a free consult if anybody is listening and has burning legal questions or wants to feel a little more protected and solid in their business. I'm always happy to chat.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

One more thing. How how do you feel about the chat GPT Claude legal using using AI for legal advice? Don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

It's not legal advice and don't do it. Um it gets things wrong. It is incomplete. It doesn't always understand the it doesn't understand nuance, it just wants to make you happy. So it's gonna tell you what you want to hear, even if that is not legally sound advice or even just sound advice. Take the legal part out of it. Literally, yesterday I was watching John Oliver's last week tonight. I think it was two weeks ago, had an episode on AI chatbots. And just watching that will make you never want to rely on AI for anything ever, ever again.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

I want it gone. I want it gone completely. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. It's real bad. Um, all right. Well, thank you so much, Leah. Yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Thanks for listening to All of the My Lady Business with me, Mary Easty. Uh, we'd love for you to like, review, subscribe, follow us at All of the My Lady Business on the gram. And if you're a female identifying person and you want to dance, you can follow. I mean, everybody can follow us. But if you want to be a part of the magic at Hot Swatch dance party, sign up for the meeting to find out where our next party's gonna be. And if you are looking for a teacher, hotpland area or anywhere else. You know, money's the same color everywhere. Why is that? Twistedampics.com has the best. And listen to my radio show. I have a radio show on Chirp Radio at chirpradio.org. That's Mondays, every Monday, call the T. Today's episode is produced by Shiraz Data. Composed and performed by You guessed it, Shiraz Data. Alright, guys, peace out.