There’s No Laptop in Hammock Land With Ashley Logan

SPEAKER_02 0:14

My business is your business. It's all of it my lady business with me. Welcome to All of In My Lady Business. Today we've got once again the amazing Ashley Logan. She is uh an entrepreneurial whirlwind, and uh, I'm so happy to have her here again. Uh, she is um a marketing genius and also a witch. Uh so those are where that's that's as much of an introduction as you're getting. Um but uh but Ashley is um a person who whenever I run into her, um we had like I run into Ashley sometimes in weird places. Like I ran into her, was it was it at Casey Musgraves' concert? Yeah, it was. Uh and I was I had I was having like a bad, there was something bad happening in my life, and I ran into Ashley like I'd me, you maybe on a maybe maybe you're on mushrooms. I don't, I don't remember, but um I was definitely on something. And uh and I I still I ran into you like next to the bathrooms, and then I told you my problem and you gave me the answer, and then I walked away from you and I didn't see you again for the rest of the night. And it was like, and that happens all the time. It happens all the time. So um, so Ashley is uh she's got some kind of connection to the beyond.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Hmm. Thanks, I'll take that. I think maybe you just bring it out on me, my magical mystical fairy friend. Um maybe it's you. I tend I can bring stuff out of people. I can get them to talk. I can't. Well, and you're like a projector in human design, I think. I am.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

I am a projector.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

What does that mean exactly? It means that like once you have the invitation to like be seen for all that you are, you just flourish. Um, but it's like you're not, yeah, I don't know. No, no, go on. Go on, say, say more. Well, like in your perfect world, like people are coming to you with things, and then you can be like, okay, yes, I've got now I can fully create something. And that when people fully see you, you thrive. And which is so true.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

It is true. And I and I need to be invited. That's the thing I I uh I need if if people invite me in, I'm like a vampire. You have to invite me in. And then once you've invited me in, uh, I will reverse suck your blood.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, but like you leave an impression, and that's really is it two fangs in the neck?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

I've got a white.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Can you come here and and bite my neck?

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Ashley's also recently divorced, so uh she also has uh some of that energy going on, that hot energy. Um but uh but yeah, so uh Ashley and I kind of are in similar positions because we both sort of have kind of quasi-left our companies and not really left the company. We're not like actively enjoy involved in them anymore, like we are technically the owners. Although I do believe you just sold your company. So I maybe you're a little bit further beyond wherever I could be. Um, but we're in this weird place, this limnal place where we both have um well, why don't you talk about Yakadi Yak? Yakadiak is a marketing company that you own, and that's how I met you.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yes. So I mean I love, I mean, our origin story is just like next level. For anyone who wants to hear it, you can go back and listen to the first time I was on this show. But so Yakadiak is the agency, marketing agency that I find founded in 2014 and built from the ground up while simultaneously having growing a family. So I had three tiny kids, um, a multi-seven figure agency with a global presence, and it was wild. Shit was was absolutely fucking wild. And I think that the thing that's really interesting that now in hindsight, um so it just I'll finish the the thought before we go into the hindsight, but I exited fully that business just a couple weeks ago. And it started by merging with another firm who was who is amazing, perfectly synergistic. We had a lot of suitors over the years and they weren't just weren't the right fit. So I mean, I dragged this motherfucker to the finish line because I wanted my people to be in a culture where they could thrive. I wanted my clients to be able to continue the legacy. And then I stayed on um in a part-time role for about six months. And then um in in May, I really got clear and honest with myself that even though I was getting a paycheck, even though I had financial security, that that chapter of my life was closed. And part of that came from recognizing that the reason I started the agency in the first place was to put myself in a box that made sense. I was a creative person with lots of ideas, who as with witchy tendencies. And that wasn't something that in 2013, there's not like a job description that's like intuitive support for your business through marketing and whole body support. But I now that's a now it does. Now it does make a little bit more sense. But um, so I sort of channeled all of my gifts into this business that um was explainable. And while like I recognize I did a lot of really big things by like building this company while having the kids, and that statistically, as you know, being a woman in business that gets exceeds the million dollar in revenue mark is like a fucking like like 2%.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Um, it's crazy, but it wasn't the fit for me. It wasn't what my sole calling was. And it was really like in the face of total burnout and self-exploration that I realized, like, oh, actually, like it's the witchy part of me. It's the intuitive part of me, it's the connection part of me that is what I was trying to fit in a box.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

It's interesting the fitting in the box and putting who you are into it. Like, it's like because it's like it, it's I've never thought about it through from that perspective that like you have you have this way of like explaining what people are and making their gifts shine, and that's kind of what marketing is. And taking like your weirdness and and trying to make it marketable or make it turn it into a job, which I think is like, you know, what we all kind of are doing with our, you know, with with everyone, that's what the point of adulthood or so the story we were sold is. And uh, and so it's what an interesting insight to make about yourself that I am a creative person who can help, you know, can help people find themselves and you know, kind of make it all synergize together. And marketing was where you did it, and you managed to work your way out of that to be able to do the thing you actually can do with your skills. Like you were gonna like I was just saying this to someone earlier on. I was gonna be an entrepreneur, whether I was a DJ, company owner, or a boutique, whatever I was did, whatever I wound up doing with my life, it was gonna, I was gonna have to be my own boss because I can't work for people. And uh same.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Same so the last last six months taught me anything, is that.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

But like how many people are stuck in jobs like that where like, you know, their itches sort of scratch, you know, they get to kind of be creative or kind of be whatever the thing they're good at, and they have to force it into some kind of capitalist framework in order to make it work for their lives. And then the burnout happens because the thing that you loved or the thing you think you're good at, you know, it it doesn't feed you forever. And, you know, when we were having that conversation a couple we like a couple of days ago, listeners you weren't a part of, but we had a conversation a couple of days ago about burnout. And I I really it's an interesting topic. Burnout.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Well, like, I mean, even beyond that, though, like even like let's reverse for two seconds. We have to tell ourselves lies in order to survive in the way that this society is designed. It's important. Those lies are important. And example of a lie. An example of a lie is that like your employer loves you and that you have to show up every day. And when you work hard and do a good job, that you're gonna make more money and then you're gonna like be happy. Like you have to believe that at some point in this capitalistic framework of society to know that, like, okay, this is you got to convince yourself, I am getting up, I am going to work, I am doing this thing, I have purpose. I'm leaving my kids at daycare or wherever, like I have purpose. We have to convince ourselves of that to survive. And the problem is that once you reach a state of burnout or once that veil gets lifted where you realize, like, oh shit, like actually, um, maybe those things aren't true. Then you have to really look yourself in the in the eye and figure out like what is true for you. So, like two things can be true at the same time. You can need to make a living and and you can want to make your soul feel good about it. And those things don't have to be in sync. That's why like a side hustle is important and then having boundaries at work is important is important, especially if you hate your job um or kind of part of the rat race.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Do you think a side hustle is important? Um by side hustle, I mean I think I think of a side hustle as a thing you are making money doing on the side. Like it's not just like I'm having fun doing knitting. It's I'm knitting and selling. Like to me, that's a that's a side hustle.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Okay. It's the monetization of a hobby.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I'm so glad that you said that because like the real thing that I think we are missing in society right now is like the backyard musician. The person who picks up a guitar at a barbecue and like fumbles through some fleetwood map. Pretty fallen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like whatever, Tom Petty, and everyone sings along and they're not so self-conscious and whatever. And that person has a gift, and we're so happy for them and so grateful that they busted out their guitar so we could smoke a joint around a campfire and sing Tom Petty. But the other part of that is that so many of those people's dreams have been crushed by people being like, what are you gonna do with that? So you love to write? So what are you gonna do with that? Oh, you love to sing. So, like, what are you gonna do? Be the next Beyonce, like you can't go to art school. What are you gonna be? You're not gonna be like, no one buys paintings anymore. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Says the person with like, is that Elvis behind you? Oh, I'm glad you asked. No, no one's ever asked me about these back here, but these are actually, well, maybe they have, but this is Interpol, the band Interpole. Um, and they are it's it's uh the band Interpole that was a marketing uh poster series they made when Antics came out, their second record. And Shepard Ferry, who did the Obama Yes We Can iconic, you know, his profile photo. Like, yeah. Uh so Shepard Ferry made these. And when the this guy over here is Carlos D, who is who was the bass player, and he um kind of uh famously left the band right before they released Antics. And so when they were doing the marketing thing, they were only releasing these three. And so uh my friend Michael, who was the Matador rep, uh, who I used to run a record fair at the Pitchfork Music Festival, and uh Matador got a table at it, and he gave me these three pictures, and he's like, Yeah, it's too bad because our Carlos D, we had them made for Carlos D, but he's not in the band anymore, so we're not giving them away. And I'm like, Can you can you sneak me one? And he's like, let me see what I can do. And then like three weeks later in the mail, I got Carlos D. So I might be one of the only people that has an entire Shepherd Fairy set of the Interpol posters for antics.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Okay, and I have a very personal question. Yeah. Did you, did you is are those clear frames that you can see the paint through, or did you perfectly match the mat of those paintings to your paint color?

SPEAKER_02 12:18

They are there, the mats are a little bit different from the paint color, but they luckily look really good with it. Those pictures have been hung all over the place in different iterations. They used to be in my office. They were used to be in a different part of my house. I've moved them so many times, and then once I got this, it actually worked perfectly accidentally.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Gotta love it. Well, now back to our main event. Okay, so our main event. Yeah, sorry guys. No little side side piece. But like, but yeah, it's uh it's that. It's like the art of the art of the art of it all.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Okay, yes. We're talking about art.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

So it's like, so someone can knit. And then and how often is like the, you know, the uh baby boomer dad, like, you know, you should really sell those on Etsy. And then you start being like, okay, well, is it like worth it for me to just like have a hobby? So insert side hustle, hobby. Something you do that you love that's just for you is such an important part of surviving this life and staying connection connected to like what I believe is our life force energy. It's our sacral authority, it's our cre the creator that lives within all of us. And humans are meant for art. They are meant to create, they're meant to express. And we used to sing, we used to dance. And uh wait, Mary, uh did you create an entire brand around getting people dancing again?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

I guess I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Fuck yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Fuck yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I mean, that's I mean, uh, you know, it's like it's just it's the creation. It's the it's I can't stop. You know, like you know, I've I've had many people over my years being like, Mary, when's it gonna be enough? Like when can you just like just chill with where you're at and be there for a second? And I'm like, I just can't. Like I literally, it's like I can't tell if I'm, you know, running like I'm running out of time, or if I'm like actually just, you know, like time to move on to a new thing and it's okay. And it's, you know, or am I running, or I'm just afraid of it. Do you run like you're running out of time? Yeah, I did. I just sort of tried to co-op Hamilton and uh it didn't, yeah, it was like half in my brain and half out.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I mean, I I was I was I was sitting then I my wheels were spinning like, where are these lyrics from? Where are this? Oh, I know. Yeah, and also I will never be satisfied. I'll never be satisfied. Yeah. Totally. Well, I mean, I have a case of that too, but I think that more than that, it's like taking the information that you get and then acting on it. And it doesn't happen overnight. Like I I couldn't exit yakity yak in one foul swoop. It didn't work that way. But it's starting to be like, okay, so what doesn't work about it? What can I set down then? What are the things I really want to be doing? How can I fit them into my life as well? And starting to create spaciousness. And now we have arrived at burnout, motherfucker. Wait a minute. So you're saying what's the spaciousness? So, like, if you don't, if you are like, okay, so let's take Mary Nisi, for example. You have been operating Toast and Jam for over 20 years. You, for those of you listening who don't know, she is a genius. She is very well known in the DJ uh world. She owns the largest DJ, women-owned DJ company in the country, started that shit, navigated through a pandemic while raising a family, while like just building a culture that's amazing and trying to follow all the rules that weren't written for DJ companies. Like, she's a bad bitch. And with all of that that she did and accomplished, then there was a moment where you're like, okay, I have done all of these things and that feels like enough right now. And so I'm gonna push back on whoever says, Are you ever gonna be satisfied? It's like, no, you recognize that that is enough. And so what you have done, which is a beautiful thing, is you start you got lit up by an idea that gave you some joy. And that joy helped you get to the finish line. So by starting the dance parties, that gave you enough life force to say, to have the clarity to be like, okay, cool, dude. I am going to now have Melissa step in in a much bigger role because I know that I am tapped out. I have done all that I have set out to do here. So I'm not adding more value to the company or to myself. But this other thing that I'm doing is is giving me life.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah. It's almost like it gave me permission to leave my company because it was kind of another job.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Yeah, but it was, but if you even look at it in a reframe, something that gave you joy that you spent time with helped you understand what was important to you and what was giving you joy and what wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Well, and I, you know, it's I think it's also like, you know, recogn like finding the thing. You know, like I am not gonna pretend like I invented the target market of, you know, women between the ages of 35 and you know, 65 that still want to like move their bodies and dance and have a good time. Like I didn't invent that demographic. Uh, but once I figured out that it was a demographic, and that's the thing. It's like it it's it is it is figuring out, like finding the place for it. I mean, what it's like, what is it? Cicero Hey, what hold it?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Like, let's back up for a second. Here's what you did with Hot Flash Dance is you understood there was three things happening in the world simultaneously. And you built on the foundation of your experience. One, that people used to connect and go out and dance a lot and have a lot of fucking fun. And even old people. And old people, like dancing was part of our culture. Like we used to dance and um and the pandemic killed a lot of that. Like we lost dancing. We lost dancing. And so with that in mind, you saw then um a third need. What which was that women need to feel safe. And noticing that after the Me Too movement, where women were seen, heard, recognized, and then the free fall plummet of that the pendulum swinging the other way, where it's like trad wives and yeah. And like, don't get me wrong, like I want to fucking farm, like for sure. Give me the chickens, give me the horses, all of that. But like story for another day. But but there's a whole lot of people in a cultural narrative like constantly trying to discredit women. And so, one, like discrediting women, two, women love to show up together. You totally fed off of the magic that happened at the Eras tour and how it felt to be in a room of people aligned with one purpose in safety and dancing. And then you like, and people believed in you, so then you created it, and then you've gotten positive reinforcement. So you continue to build on it. So, what I think more than anything is it wasn't just a business idea, it was a need that you had in your soul to show up and dance with people, to bring them joy again through music, through the thing that like was the original part, and bear with me, I'm gonna go take this in a windy road. That was the original reason why you started Toast and Jam. And me, the original reason I started yakkidayak was to make people feel seen. But guess what happens? We fit into boxes of things and rules and things we have to do. And then you realize, like, okay, I've I've had enough of that. And now I'm going to take all of those things. I'm gonna build something new or different or spend my time and energy in a way that pleases me. And that's allowed.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

I and I think that also like I'm I've come to realize how much when women turn 40, they become invisible. And people don't really regard us or think that we're uh like it's it's kind of like when the Sex in the City movie came out, and everyone's like, wow, women go to movies. And it was like, yeah, we go to movies. Like it, like you can actually appeal to us, and we we're the ones who actually spend money in our houses, like unpacking the lie that like women don't matter.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

And it's like sexual. This is why this is happening so much in midlife is like this this reckoning. So for the woman who has told herself the lie in order to survive, that she's gotta go to work at this place and do these things and follow the set of rules in order to get happiness and gotta yada. And then you turn all 40 and you're like what the fuck? This was all a lie. And wait, I do matter. Wait, these rules, no one's gonna hand me a gold star at the end of this. No one's going to suddenly be like, Yes, you did it. Now go take the break. Yeah. Then you start to be like, right.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

There's no one there telling you you did it. And I also think that when people turn, when they get older, they're like supposed to dress differently. You're supposed to not be loud. You're supposed to like not do these things. You're not supposed to get tattoos and we have a nose ring. And I mean, I dress like a I dress like a like a middle school art teacher um or her students. I mean, I I really I'm I'm really like I I you know, and it was one of these things where like I used to wear just like black and I would kind of just you know keep it chill. And then as I and I'm it just means I'm turning into Jean Nisi. I've I'm just it's the transmogrification into my mother is it's very rapid, uh, especially recently. But um I also think that but with in my case with Toast and with the hot flash dance situation, is that I was 50, I just turned. 50 and I was like, oh my God, I couldn't be less relevant. You know, like I was like, I'm, but I don't feel irrelevant. Like I feel like there are people that still like I've got these really good skills, and it sucks that the older you get and the better you get at it, the less people want to see you in the club. And so, like, I I didn't know where to put this skill that I had. And I didn't want to go to the club, and I didn't want to go to the bar, and I didn't want to like have drunk guys coming behind the t the date table and asking me if I knew how all the buttons work and you know, just all the dumb shit that I have to put up with as the ways that I in the places that I've been that I have been DJing at. And so to all of a sudden realize like, wait a minute, I can just make the people I want to make dance dance, like, and I can do that, and actually everybody wants that. Like, I really it's it is I feel like I should be on the cover of ARP magazine or something. Like, you know, like old people, you can still do it. Like, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

It's whatever. I don't know. Okay. Uh uh two things here though, is like the some of the most fun nights that I have had are at your dance parties.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Really? I get told, I get told by at least one person every time that it's the best night of their life. So I've never been so happy.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Like one of my oh, we have a my friend who I I introduced you to at the what was the last concert we went to together? Oh, Brandy Carlisle. Brandy Carlisle. Yeah. My friend Katie was at the hot slash dance that you did a couple weeks ago at Roberts, and she wrote she like just has been raving about it. She tells every everyone, everyone possible about how much fun it is to do a dance party with Mary Nisi. Because here's what it does it reminds us of our joy. And in a spot where we don't have to perform. And I like sort of hate the way that perform is used so much in AI lingo, but truly, where you don't have to like dress for the male gaze, where you can just like wear the thing that you know your girlfriends are gonna love, or wear the sports bra out, or wear your flats because they feel good and and not worry about it. Not like I wore last time like fringe boots, the shortest skirt that I possibly own, and didn't have to worry about like cellulites, like anyone giving a shit that I've cellulites. Like someone touching you, right? Or someone coming up and like, you know, putting a finger up my butt. You also could have come in sweatsuits.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

But you also could have come in a sweatsuit. That's the other thing. I love the people that come in just like their basically their pajamas, and it's like you are showing up.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah. Oh my god, I just had an idea. We have to do a collab. Um, but I'll that's the way my my mind. We need to do a pajama dance party. A pajama dance party, which is just like show up and like really just get unfiltered. But see, what you're saying though is so true. Like the feeling of of not belonging anymore, or like both you and I are sober, like alcohol free, I'll say. And so going out to places socially, it's just like it's just a different vibe. It's a different vibe, yeah. Yeah. And so, but the main thing that that I think we're our thread here is what we is that once you realize that something isn't working, the best thing that you can do for your mental health is then start to integrate something that is working. And whether that's creative expression, whether that's a side hustle, whether that's something to give you a little bit of joy and purpose. Because we we're we need purpose and um, and life should have meeting, meaning and it should bring you joy. And a lot of times for women, we like stifled our personal expression so much. Like I cut my hair when I was 22 in the job market because someone's like, oh, you can't have long hair and get be a professional. It's like, okay. So like gradually my life isn't spent unpacking those lies that chipped away at who I was actually the person and fit me into a box, into the homogeneity, into the like the culture of like all soldiers marching in the same direction. And so now what the gift that we have in midlife as we realize the lies that we've been told is that you can actually create something different. And that's fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

But I think there's a lot of people that don't realize the lies that they are lies or that they've just been following them even though it hurts. I I mean, I I think I have I have bound myself in the in my own chains. I was binding myself in the same, in the in the cages and telling myself that I I had to have certain things or do certain things or run a same way. So it's like part of it is also like, how do you get people to realize like the thing that that isn't feeding them to find the thing that is feeding them, even recognizing that they are not, that they're starving. You know, I think about how, you know, like being people are so separated from their bodies, you know, like they can't even like that lump that's three feet above your ass.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Yeah. So I I always think about this when I talk about like I plugged my head back into my body over the last like six years, which like gave me the chance to then pivot. And I laugh, like Jimmy Dugan in a league of their own. Um, you know the movie when he's like, There's no crying in baseline, no crying. And he's like, you need to listen to like listen to your head. That's three the the lump that's three feet above your ass. Anyway, so we are as a society so disconnected from our bodies, so disconnected from our knowing because we've had to be in system override for so long. And it really comes down to like so many different things from the lack of the village in childbirth, the lack of so like just the lack of support, the lack of being seen, heard, witnessed in tragedy, trauma, like over and over and over again, we have to override our thing, our our systems and our knowing. And then eventually we end up just just living up here. And I think that what happens is that that people start to understand, like as disease presents itself, as other like chronic illness, um lack of sleep, weight gain, all of these things, people start to go on a uh search what's wrong with my body. And it's like, I don't know, maybe because you haven't fucking listened to her in any point in your life. But that's not your fault. But the journey is to stop, create space, and to tune in. I mean, I've so then you're a whole less person.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Like I've had a couple a stressful couple of weeks, and uh I like last weekend I found that my son had lice, that Sebastian had lice. Um, he like was combing his hair and some bugs came out, and I was and then so I was up to like one o'clock in the morning trying to louse him. And then I got up the next morning and kept doing it and it kept finding more, and I was like, fuck it, this is streganon as pasta pot. I gotta find somebody who can like get this out of his hair because I am not cut out for this. And so I found this like salon that just makes the lice go away as like a hundred percent guarantee of like leaving without lice. And he sits down in the chair and she's like, Let me check you. I was rife with lice. Just I had a my whole head had so much lice. And I mean, luckily I only had lice for 20 minutes because that's the only the amount of time I knew I had it. Um, but she said How long did you really have it? She could tell by the infestation on my head that I'd had it for three weeks. I had lice for three weeks. Sebastian had been at a way camp and he brought it back from a way camp. And so I had fucking lice all over my head, biting me, using I was a whole fucking meal for those for that lice. And I'm like, I am so separated from my body that I didn't even realize I had lice because all I was doing was worrying inside my little head and not thinking about anything else going on. And your little head. On my little head. On my little head. So I'm dead. I cannot believe this. That is my worst nightmare. And so it's like, you know, if uh I if I who am always, I'm I'm actively trying. I do breath work in the morning, I meditate, I do yoga, I mean, I'm gonna do all this stuff to like integrate acupuncture weekly. And I had lice for three weeks, and it's like I can't, even as hard hard as I try to get the mind-body connection, I can't do it. So how are you gonna do that to a woman who's got like, like I got one kid and he's 12? Like I don't have the same, I don't know, chasing around children and little babies, and you know, and I don't know how a woman who's like working a full-time job, has a husband who sucks, doesn't, you know, that has kids and trying to full how how are they able to even have a hobby, much less connect their mind to their bodies?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

So this is a really good uh so I have a s I have a story for you. Um so it was 2019 and I was in Ireland um for work and I had I remember when I got on the plane, I was like, I'm sitting in like the back of this plane and in a shitty seat. I had just found out I was pregnant, and the guy in front of me like leans his seat back, which is his right to do, and but I'm like stuffed in there like a sardine. I got no sleep at all. Um got there, started meeting with people, doing the job I was supposed to be doing, and I um I miscarried. I started miscarrying. And I uh sat through meetings. I remember sitting in a meeting with a pad. I like tracked down a euro. I like got a pad using a machine euro. I'm actively miscarrying. And I sat through the meeting anyway, and I eventually like I left the conference. I had one night left and it was off the site, offside of the conference and was flying home the next day. And I remember like going through all of the miscarriage process by myself and flying home and realizing that something has got to change. Like everything's broken. I set up this business where I am the person here who has to do this. I negotiated a shitty deal so I can have a higher profile where I'm sitting in the back of a fucking plane to fly to Ireland to go to like no one does that. No business owner sits in the back of the CEO sitting in the back of the plane. So like I negotiated a shitty deal because I didn't know my worth. I wasn't supported through the with the miscarriage, all of those things. And what happened after that is that I knew that it was broken. I knew that my marriage wasn't in a good spot, and I also knew that my business wasn't in a good spot. Well, the first time that um that I had sex after that, I got pregnant. Um, I didn't even like it was it was a couple weeks, so like got pregnant with my She got pregnant immediately after. Yeah, so like the miscarriage was my last period. And then I was like, okay, so we got work to do. I was a baby three. That was yeah, that was Sammy. I was aware of the problem and I knew that I had work to do. So I couldn't silence the fact that like there's an awareness that like there's something going on in my marriage that we've got to fix, but like I got a baby who's coming. And then um the pandemic happened in obviously March 2020. The baby was born in May 2020. So I knew I had a business problem, but now I had to navigate a pandemic. And then I had a newborn baby. It wasn't really until two years later, like from that knowing, till I could actually be like, okay, so like now start to take more action. But what I was able to shift in the meantime before I could actually make a change was my mindset. So starting to collect what's true for me, okay, I might not be able to go all of a sudden and pull the plug on my business where I have a business loan or pandemic loan and 30 employees and all of these things, and I have to make money because my ass is the only one who's on the line. And no one else has got the titties in my household to breastfeed my baby. So I'm gonna do that. And I, but I was aware. I was aware of all the things that weren't working and I was tracking them. And what I was would also do is say, okay, so I am going to now make some small shifts. I'm not going to check my email after this time. Oh, you know what? I'm going to break the rule that society said that I can't have a baby in my picture. And I'd breastfeed my baby on conference calls and be like, got a problem with that? Great. And so I started to break the rules that I was that were within my purview to break so that I could sort of like test the waters, like, what's true, what's not. Okay. And then realizing, like, oh, wait, no client is going to fire me. Actually, people are praising me. Wait, I just got a like Aeroflow just hired me. Like, you know, like Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

It's like it was like the you the ways you were hiding yourself, you were hiding yourself. You were being smaller. You were, you were, you were, you were lit making yourself as small as you could so that everybody wasn't like wouldn't question your commitment to the job. If you show any of yourself, you are you are somehow less into this job. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

And then what I found out through all of this was like, wait, no one's gonna fire me. Oh my god. And then I was like, wait, oh my God, I used to have a nose ring and I like put it back in. I was like, oh, still no one's gonna fire me. This is fine. And I realized that all the rules were made up. So I had this like incubation period of being like being able to test things and pressure test them. Okay, what are the things I can, what are the balls I can set down right now while I can't burn it all down? That's impossible right now. It just not gonna happen. But what are the little tiny sips of air that I can give myself? What are the different, the little beliefs that I can let go of? What are the truths that I can start to to like plant roots with? And that's what I did. And then um, so anyway, I guess that's my advice to anyone who is like who really like if you've looked under the hood and you realize like this isn't gonna work for much longer, it's like great, take that knowing. Use the paycheck to um like stop working extra hours. Stop working extra hours, get the same paycheck. Start to use your free break time to start research the knits that you the yarn you like for the scarves you want to make your family for Christmas. Yes. I don't know what it is. It's like it's creating a little bit of spaciousness by not being in super performance overachiever mode.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Well, and I think recognizing it too. I mean, that like the burnout, I mean, I think I've been burned out for 10 years. And I and I, and then COVID made it so much worse. And I and I think that burnout, like I like when I hear the word burnout, it's kind of sounds like, oh, I'm burned out. Like it kind of just seems like a thing you can say, but it's like unquantifiable, you know? It's like, it's like there's no test you can take to find out if you're burnt out. And and I think that I kind of equate the burnout with our the way we kind of with the way we kind of um hate the concept of mental health and like the way like, oh, I don't want to. I think about how like I want to get off my anxiety medication. And I'm like, why do I want so badly to get off a medication that is clearly helping me? Because there's there's a, you know, there's we've pathologized and made it, you know, like mental health be this thing you should be kind of ashamed of, even though I'm very oh, you know, I do things for it. Uh it's like burnout was kind of like admitting you need Paxel or whatever. And but there's no Paxel for burnout. It's realizing like I really I have nothing in me to give. Like that is, I kind of feel like I really have like I have like nothing to give right now outside of hot flash dance. Like I can't, like the number of emails I just can't bring myself to answer. And that's just not me. It's like not me to be like that. Like I'm not the person that let like that disappoints people. And I feel like the last six years, all I do is just let people down left and right.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Maybe now you're the person who disappoints people. I don't know. Have you been disappointed before? I have been. Yeah, it happens. It's part of life. And like I it becoming type B has been such a fucking gift. Becoming type B, that is the name of your memoir. Oh my god, I love Yeah. Like every I am going against every rule that I said. That's amazing. Like response time. Okay. Sorry, you wanted to hear from me? Great. Hi, call me. Sure. Oh, sorry, didn't get to it. It's like, and it's not on purpose. It's just that like, what's my capacity? And being really honest with myself about what is my capacity. And so I hear you on like when you have been going at the speed of light for such a long time that it starts to feel like you're failing when you pump the brakes. And that's actually just not true. And like another like great secret that I just want to tell anyone who's listening is that no one can see your calendar but you. So when you are suddenly starting to create space and negotiate with yourself and your own time to accommodate someone else and feel guilty, like, oh, could I move this lunch? It doesn't really matter, or oh, my yoga class that I like to do so I can meet with them. It's like, fuck that. No, they can't see your calendar. They don't know if you're meeting with the Pope or you're going to your yoga class that you love. Keep your commitments for yourself and fit people in when it works for you. And like, of course, there's exceptions to that. Of course there's other things. But it's like, we as women, especially high performers, have been trained to bend over backwards for people and that by doing that, that there is some big reward at the end. And isn't it's breast cancer.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

It's breast cancer or any cancer or an anxiety disorder or uh fibromyalgia or I mean, it's any number of things that just sort of marinate in the field.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

And it doesn't even have to like wait till disease. It's like, are you happy? When was the last time you like did something just for you or did something for fun or like thought back to the little girl and you who like to spin in a field? And when was the last thing you just laid in grass? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

I have a I have a hammock in my backyard, and it's amazing how I just I just wind up there a lot. I just wind up in the hammock. I didn't, I just, I just, I just appear in the hammock. And it's it's weird how I I I don't I didn't think I I never knew I had the ability to just lay down and like I I it's like if you build it, they will come. Like it, it's like I I put a hammock out there and I'm like, now all I do is just hang out in a hammock. And then I almost got my I almost got my laptop out there and I was like, fuck this.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Oh no, sacred topics. Sacred space. Can I just actually challenge you on something? Sure. I actually think that you are less burned out than you think. I think that you have to like now your big challenge is letting go of the narrative that you're burned out and trusting that you're supported. Trust that Melissa is doing a great job with toast and jam. And trust that anyone who actually needs you to reply back to those emails will call you or text you or any of those things. And that you get to absorb and soak up all the joy and that you're creating through hot flash dance and just simmer in that and that maybe it's okay to just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

I don't know how to chill. That's I mean, that is part of the problem. It's like I cr right now, I can do anything I want with my time. And I like, I feel like if I'm not at my laptop, I'm somehow doing it wrong. It's terrible. Like I and it's and I am getting more little dumb things done, but I um I haven't really quite given myself the permission to my friend is opening a a needlepoint store. Oh my god. Like two, like two blocks from me. And um, I've been helping her like just set it up. Like I've been I like the last two days I've gone over and I'm like organizing the thread, and then I was taping some canvases, and then I was, and it was like I'm like all it like was taking me back to my retail days when I was in college and God, I love retail. I love retail. I loved being in retail. You just your day is over and then you leave it there. You don't think about it. And it's done. And it's done.

unknown 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

You're just organizing shit. Like I just organize shit, and it's like, oh, it's just, it's so beautiful. All I want to do is organize shit. All I want to do is zoom a zoom, zoom, zoom, and organize a boom, boom.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Okay, it was so like those little things that you're doing and the way you're showing up for people and the way like that actually is spacious sense. It's okay to still be busy. And uh also knowing that like you can like pump the brakes on the urgency part. And because that piece is is ours to I I I think again, like goes back to any high performing woman, which is anyone born from 1976 to 1985, who serve the same neighborhood narrative. I have no data on that specific demographic, but just saying that like knock it back to 75 so I can be included in it. 75. So it's this we have been, we were taught we could have it all. We were the our the feminist um leaders at that time were very much like pantsuit boss bitches who were in their masculine, which by the way, that accomplished a lot for for womankind. Like I honor them. And now we get to settle into a little bit more ease. What shocked me so fucking much as a business owner in like the time when I was building Yak Yak was once I started hiring Gen Z employees and then literally not checking their email after they left work. And I was like, what? Not checking your email? They're like, no, and actually, like, we didn't even really want it on our phone. And they use their vacation days and they did all of these things that were like so against the way that we were taught success looked like when we were coming up in the workplace, where it's like, no, no, no, you work hard, you stay late, you show the boss that you really care. Yeah. Okay. And none of that was actually true. And so, like, I learned. So much from my Gen Z employees about like the boundaries and things. So it's like, yeah, it's okay if you don't get back to someone in five minutes. It's okay if you're offline after working hours and you get back to people in the morning. It should be no, but it is.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

It is. It is.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Yeah. I mean, it it it is, but there are a lot of business owners out there that haven't gotten that memo.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

So are we talking to the business owners or are we talking to their employees?

SPEAKER_02 44:34

I mean, the business I mean, the thing is, is that it's the business owners have to be able to be like that's part of the the entrepreneurial spirit is the pivoting and understanding like, okay, all right. Um I did this once before, I'll do it again. Being inflexible, I think, is the death knell of an entrepreneur. And I would maybe even argue that they're not even being an entrepreneur in the first place. I feel like some people like buy businesses or they, you know, they just buy a franchise or they, you know, inherit something. And it's like, and then they have the gall to call themselves an entrepreneur. It's like, no, you bought somebody else's thing. It's like people are like, Elon Musk is so smart. I mean, he's done, he made Tesla and PayPal. It's like, no, bitch, he bought all those things. Like he he bought them. He does, he he's, you know, he can break things, but he can't build them.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

I don't feel like I like I I feel like I'm in a much stronger position to comment on his character than actually like the origin of each of his businesses. Um, but I think that the main thing is this is like we forget that we have agency. And like that's what it's all coming back to is agency. You have the right to choose how you spend your time. You have the right to choose how you feel in your body. And if then there's many of us who thrive off of the chaos of the go, go, go, go, go, because that's the only speed that we've been that we've been operating at for decades, maybe. And but when you can like at least fill that space with something that brings you a little bit of joy, at least pump the brakes, especially if you're not the one like holding the keys to the kingdom. And actually, you know what, especially if you are the one holding the keys to the kingdom and and running the business. Like life, the whole point of this is to dance, is to sing, is to fuck, is to laugh, is to like be in circle and be in connection with one another and witness each other and love each other. And I know that sounds so hippie, but it's like actually the truth. And we have just been so overridden with this narrative around performance and what sucks what it means to be successful. And we bought it, bro. Like we bought it, hook, line, and sinker. But now that we know a little bit differently, we get to undo it a little bit. And that's our task, I think, as being women in this lifetime is to create a better path for our kids.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Yeah. And I, and I think that the all of that production, all that, all that productivity and all that other stuff, that that was money that went up and away from us. And, you know, and it's too, it's like we I think that the, you know, the the narrative right now around labor and work is, you know, work is for suckers and you know, la, you know, like I only give them boss exactly with the Gen Z. Like I'm only, you know, giving them part of me or whatever. And, you know, kind of and I and I get it. I'm not being distract, I'm not being disparaging of I see where you're going with this and I love it.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Let's go there. Let's go there. Because not every business is a fucking is a billion dollar company that's trying to suck out your soul. Like working for a small business owner, like it requires a different level of um understanding.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

And understanding of the of the bus of the of where you're working. Because working for me is not like working for a corporation that has like I think that part of the re I feel like part of the reason why we're at where we're at right now, like with the world, is that when you make a business too big, the boss is too far away from the people who are actually doing the work. And then they don't know, they don't understand what's happening. So it's really easy to make decisions that kind of fuck them over because you're never gonna have to look them in the eye. All you're doing is providing more cash or shareholder value. And I, you know, it's like I feel like we need to just, I mean, I know we monop I really learned a lot about how you're supposed to not have monopolies when I was in high school. And it feels like that's all we have now, are just a bunch of monopolies. And and it's it's so quick question.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

So which thread do we want to tug?

unknown 48:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Then like the flip side of this. Like, cause like one, I think I think what's if I were gonna say anything about like an Uber corporate environment, I would say this do your job, be in integrity and go home and don't let it consume you. Yeah, take it for what it is. And that can be a tremendous benefit. You can get a paycheck that's funding your kids' lives, all of that. Like that's something to take seriously. Like when I advise people or mentors, it's like um if you're going to get a job that you hate, show up and fucking love it because that energy will introduce you to the next person. It's breadcrumbs to the next path and being open to that. But like showing up and being a sour puss and all of that, like that's bullshit too.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Or this is below me or Yeah, this is below me.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

It's like, okay, well, I know this that every single job that I've had has unfolded in every relationship and every person is like because they get a vibe from me. And um, anyway, if I was like compl my main point is like, show up, do a good job, do your thing, and don't take on more than what you need to to prove yourself if it's not going to come back in spades. Now, the other piece of this is now those who are working for a small business owner. And I will say this man, I got my ass handed to me over and over and over and over again. I did not send the money up to management. I made the same amount of money for the entire time that I was CEO of this company. I did not ever get a raise. I gave copious raises to everyone else. I made sure they had good insurance. I did the best I could with benefits, and I got ripped to shreds. And I do ask myself regularly, and I'm curious about your stake in this too, is as much as I tried to create a business that wasn't steeped in patriarchal and deeply capitalistic values, I don't think the workforce was ready for it. And I think that I I think that there is so much internalized misogyny that like really, man, like it is and the call comes from inside the house.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

There's a lot of women on women's crime that happens too. But I think that like oh my God, yeah. One of the things that I've I've I've come to realize when because I my employees were all 1099 and turning them to W-2, it really means that all you're doing is putting in like rules and regulations around your business to make up for the bad behavior of other people. Like other people fucked their employees over. And so therefore, that is why you have to have a minimum wage, or that is why you have to have, you know, PTO and all these other things. Like they have to mandate these. It's like how they had to make child marriage illegal because too many people were fucking marrying children. Like, so I mean, it's like we had to make a law for that. We had to make a law to not allow children in factories because if we didn't, children would be working in factories. And so, like, so many of the things that I have to do that cost me money that are so dumb and stupid, like, you know, it's like you know, things like around reimbursable expenses or, you know, all these like dumb rules where it's like, this isn't even my business. This is all shit that I'm just trying to work around these things so that I can do my business in the way I want to do it. And I can't because I have to have mandatory sexual harassment training once a year. And I have to have, you know, uh fucking, you know, making sure that I'm uh giving my DJs who give me their schedule and tell me when they want to work, that I have to give them PTO. And it's like, but what are they gonna do? Book a wedding and then say they don't want to do it. I don't know how they would even enact PTO. But they're but because other businesses have done such a bad job of giving their employees time off and they use it. Like it's like you're paying the price for all those people and you're doing and you're paying the price for people who are that's why I think like her businesses are so much bigger than yours that like you won't you don't have that problem, but you still have to like have policy around it. And like it's just it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

And being a business owner, it's a it's a lot. It's a lot. Having employees is a lot. Um it's deeply uncool.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

I I understand why, by like, by like multinational corporation owners become Republicans, like because there's so much regulation around these things that it's like, of course they're gonna like lobby for the guy that's gonna take the rules away. I would kill for someone to come along and take the rules away. But they protect too many people. That's the thing. It's like, I get it. Like I know why these rules exist. I'm just not the one who's doing it. And so it's, you know, very hard.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

But it's hard. I mean the it's hard. It's exhausting. And those are the things that take like if you are someone who has started a business because you're passionate about it and they have an idea that lights you up, and then you you get into all of like the actual shit that goes into running a business, like no wonder you get burned out, no wonder you get bogged down, no wonder you lose sight of the price. So it's like having a side hustle, having a hobby, having something that's an outlet for you. Um that isn't spilling your phone. That isn't that does not count. Um that that's really, really important. But I would argue, like honestly, I think every person needs to connect back with their artist and connect back with like the hobbies and the things that bring them joy and like that space. Um reading poetry.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Sitting in hammock without your laptop. You know that I just took my first vacation without my laptop a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

How'd it go?

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Did you borrow someone's laptop?

SPEAKER_01 54:20

I did actually have to do some work on my iPad, but um, it was so I'm sitting on the plane with my daughter, and it was a a girl's trip, and we were going to see to Charleston, and we were going to see one of my best friends and her daughter, um, who's a similar age of mine. And um, so we got on the plane, sat down, I pulled out a book, and I was like, we're not doing screens right now. And so she pulled out a book and she read for a little bit. And then I got a ping on my phone that someone needed like some code for something or other. So then I pull out my laptop or my um my iPad to try to fumble through and get this done. And like it would have been so much better to have my laptop to get this done faster. I ended up fumbling with it for a little bit. And then I noticed my daughter close her book and pull out her iPad because connection time was over. So if we are never connected to art, poetry, the the shorter, the slower pace off of our devices, our kids are never, ever going to be.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

Yeah. And I, and the the devices are too much. It's it's it's weird how much I let it happen too. I thought I was like, you think you're gonna be this parent that's like, I'm not gonna do technology, I'm not gonna do that. And it's so you do all of it, and it's like, wow, like I have no control over my my parents. I mean, and it's I mean, it's probably part of this fucked up shit that's going on with, you know, the degradation of democracy, you know, like where I like I I I had made a child and I don't feel like I have any control over parenting him in some ways.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

I mean, I have three of them. And and I'm a single mom. So it's like sometimes I have to use devices to like get anything done. If I like want to talk, if I want to go outside and talk on the phone to you while you're telling me what's going on in your life, I put my kids on a device because then they aren't starting fires. But it's just, it's, it's really, it's it's a challenge. And okay, so I want to bring something back here. Yeah, we're almost out of time.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

So yeah, bring it back. Mary Nasi. Mm-hmm. What is something that's burning you out right now?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

I don't know. What is what's burning you out? Let's start with your burnout first before we get to mine.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Um, I am noticing. So since I exited the agency, I have this like I'm looking for things to do and to fill my time. I have plenty of creative projects. I've got plenty of spots I need to be. I've sort of had to recalibrate my brain a little bit to be like, I don't need to look at my phone right now. I don't need to take this into the bathroom. I don't need to do all of those things. And so that's been an interesting reset. And I think for me, where I'm feeling pressure right now is that like I've got to make a living. I gotta do like the next thing is here. It's time to lean into it and announce it and roll it out. And so I'm feeling some pressure to like again perform. Um, but generally speaking, like I make it a point to walk every day and get connected to nature. And um, there are definitely things that would enhance my life, but I'm I'm intentionally trying to create a little bit more ease, at least in these summer months, which is positive.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

Yeah, I think I'm just having a like I I think I'm just having a hard time like like unraveling the abuse that I've been doing to myself for so long.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

Yeah, I hear that.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

You know, just the like the the worrying and realizing like, you know, I don't have to do these things. And that's you know, it's like it's like when you say all these problems are imaginary, it's like during COVID, I realized that money's imaginary. I realized that we made up money. Like the second that I got like PPP loans, and I'm like, they just gave me all this money. Like, what is money worth to them if they're gonna give me this much money? And it was barely anything. Like to me, it was so much money. And like to a normal business, it would be like a a rounding error. I know. And like, and I'm like, so we just we just fling in this stuff around. And some some of these industries matter, and but the ones that really matter when everything comes down to it, all we really want is takeout food, health stuff, and TV, like the arts. And that's all we want. We we listened to music, we we, you know, we all listen, we were all be, you know, folklore turned to soul in the Swifties. Like it was, it was easy. I was already there, but I I was already there too, but you know, a lot of people that they finally got it. Um fearless, fearless really got me. Yeah. Uh you're too, you're you're down. I lover was my conversion.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Um lover was so good though. I mean, that was when I was really like, oh my god, I'm never letting you go. But like she gave us so much from 2019. She's given us so much. So much.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Uh but uh yeah, I it's it's realizing that we're all a slave to this thing that we just made up and all of our problems are made up, and it sucks to like be living this life. And it's like realizing, like, oh, I can stop doing that because that's like made up and stupid.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Isn't that so exciting to be like, oh, you don't actually have to have party favors for your kid's birthday party. Yes. You don't actually have to overnight all of these things from Amazon to create more plastic waste and do all these things. You know what you can do instead? Bake some cookies and put them in a baggie with a bow.

SPEAKER_02 59:34

Uh-huh. I had a barbecue on four on the 4th of July, and I used to have like whenever to have a barbecue, I'd make like five different kinds of salads, and I would have six different types of meat, and I would have, and I would have marinated the ribs for three days. And I would, I mean, I would have like I used to like make so much work. And then I would have like enough food to feed the Turkish Navy like left over. And like this time I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna do burgers, hot dogs, potato salad, and that's it. And everybody was fed. I had barely any food left over. And I'm like, oh, so all that like overachieving, like, you know, super Martha Stewart bullshit that I would like try to do didn't fucking matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

Didn't matter. Did not matter. And so maybe that's it. Maybe the thesis of all of the things that we've been talking about today is this simplify. Do less. If you're working a corporate job, do less.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Do less, but also just be if you're proud of what you're doing, it doesn't feel like work. So if you're doing a job where you are just hitting a button and nothing is fun, like get the fuck out of that job. I know that's really easy for me to say, but like you this is your one wild and crazy life, you know? Like, do you really want to? I don't know. I just I always feel like there's options. And I don't know if that I can't tell, like I always feel like there's options, and I can't tell if that is like coming from a very privileged place.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

Like when I say like just get a new job, it's like, you know, it's like I because like here's the thing. It's like it's it's this is a mindset shift. So like let's let's unpack this for just like one second. So yes, show if like it's if it's not always possible to get a new job, then what can you do with a job that you have? Okay, good, do the do what you need to do, appreciate, honor the paycheck. When it comes in, bless it. Like be grateful for it. And know that like that serves a f a point in your life. It fulfills your paycheck. Does it fulfill your soul? Great. No, that that doesn't have to also be true. So then what can fulfill your soul? You know what? I love to cut my kids' sandwiches into heart shapes before school, and that brings me joy. And that's a thing that I do to I'm just getting throwing examples. It's just just honoring and acknowledging the parts that of fulfillment. This fulfills me financially. This fulfills my soul, this fulfills me and creatively, and making sure that you're not putting all your eggs in one basket and expecting someone to hand you a gold star. No, just have agency. What does my soul need right now? My soul needs to feel more connected to my three kids. So I'm going to, you know, do these things for them, just a little gesture so they know. And then I'm gonna do this thing for me. I'm gonna stay up late night, I'm gonna watch gossip girl reruns while knitting. That brings me joy. You know what I mean? That's just like just awareness and then mindset around it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

Yeah. And I think that we also can make things better. I think that, you know, when you have a boss that's mean or whatever, it's like kind of like try to unravel why you think they're mean and then maybe there's solutions in there. If you, if you think that person's mean, someone else thinks they're mean and that person already hates themselves. So it's like, how do we either make them hate themselves less and be nicer, or I'll rally to find a way to get that person either out of that position or, you know, have I mean, I don't know. I just feel like my accountant used to have this thing on his wall that said suffering is optional. And it used to drive me crazy when I would see that because I would be like, well, what if the person in like, you know, the Mili massacre, like they weren't, you know, and you know, but then I think about Anne Frank in the in the attic. And the one of the last things she wrote is like, I think that everybody is good in their hearts as she's actively hiding from Nazis. So it's like, you know, the suffering is optional. Like you can be in that massacre. And if you are at peace with yourself, you know that you didn't cause it and you can't fix it. So just be who you are inside of it. I'm saying that as much to myself as I'm saying it to you. Because I find I get real worked up over things and I'm like, wait a minute, this doesn't matter. And like it, you know, it's it really is the mindset.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

What matters, what doesn't. Are you my new co-host? I mean, I don't know. Do you think what do what do what do you guys think? Should should we be a regular guest co-host? You like this vibe? I'm because I mean I love any time I'm spending time with you, and like I leap happier.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Seems easy. So I don't know what's gonna happen here, folks, but we need to wrap this up because we're getting over the limit. Um, we're we've taken it to the limit. Thanks everybody for listening. And you should write reviews of this podcast and like it because apparently that's a thing that needs to happen in order for people to find this this pod, this cast we call pod. Bye. Love ya, bye. Thanks for listening to All of the Millady Business with me. Mary Easty. Uh, we'd love for you to like, review, subscribe, follow us at all of the millinity business on the RAM. And if you're a female identifying person and you want to dance, you can follow. I mean, everybody can follow it. But if you want to be a part of the magic at hot watch dance party. If you want to move colour everywhere, quiet out and comb and listen to my radio show. I'm a radio show on chip radio at chip radio.org. That's Monday, every Monday. All right, guys, peace out.